Getting really annoyed with the "We use 100% renewable" taglines on our electricity bills

marcusjclifford

Hi all,
Probably done to death already, but I am getting so very annoyed at seeing the "We use 100% renewable electricity" or words to that effect on so many of our electricity bills and advertisements yet the prices charged keep going up.

Scotland I think last year generated 98% of it's electricity using renewables, yet the bills here continue to make the same claims while soaring in price. 

I absolutely understand gas (as used to generate electricity)  prices have shot up, but it is really frustrating to see all these companies constantly promoting how all their electricity is generated from renewables (who's cost has not gone up) yet they pass on the price cap. 

Surely there is a disconnect here and they should either be honest or (no way going to happen) keep the prices low as they are using renewables.

QrizB

Here is an article at The Conversation that explains it in more detail than I can:

https://theconversation.com/renewables-are-cheaper-than-ever-so-why-are-household-energy-bills-only-going-up-174795

Incidentally, for most energy companies the "we use 100% renewable electricity" line simply means they buy enough REGOs to cover the energy they buy. The energy all comes down the same wires and a good proportion is likely to be from non-renewable sources.

See https://cms.goodenergy.co.uk/greenwash/ for a discussion of this.

TheAble

Yup. Who cares, really? The cost is all I care about - no interest at all if it's renewable or not.

prowla

I think it is a sleight of hand; the reality is that you and your supplier don't know where the exact units of energy you are using came from.

markin

Some off topic discussion in this thread below, if you care to read it. 

Battery electric vehicle news thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6072181/battery-electric-vehicle-news-thread/p430

JKenH said:

CKhalvashi said:

JKenH said:

paul991 said:

so  we are in a transition  phase with  2 very  large wind farms in the  north sea in the pipeline and multiple smaller renewable s coming on line were slowly  going in the right direction ,just look forward to the day when we are not breathing the pollution from diesel buses and lorries , you can split hairs on what time of day is  best to charge a ev but every ones  set up and use is  different

I too will be pleased to see the back of smelly buses and lorries.

You may believe I am splitting hairs but people are making erroneous and/or exaggerated claims about their EVs and charging them and I am simply challenging them to be open and truthful about their CO2 emissions. Just because we have chosen to drive an EV doesn’t give us carte blanche to mislead. If one claims to charge one’s car on a 100% renewables tariff one should be prepared to explain what that actually means. At the moment what it seems to mean is that no matter how dirty the grid is when you decide to charge your car you can still make the 100% renewables tariff claim. This appears to absolve people of charging their car responsibly.

  

My car has 0 tailpipe emissions, which should more than offset the emissions from manufacturing and the electricity generated to charge it, neither of which are necessarily in themselves zero emission. I would like to see a reduction of emissions overall on the grid to reduce this environmental footprint further.

It could also in the right circumstances lead to a decrease of emissions in towns and cities, especially when 2 different government agencies shut 2 major roads on the same weekend and the trains do not operate at all, thus leading to an increase in traffic.

I think that should be obvious to most, but this is how I see it.

My car also has zero tailpipe emissions. I charge either on Octopus Go Faster or from my solar using a Zappi charger just like many others on here. How bad grid emissions can be sometimes was brought to my attention by another board contributor when generation CO2 levels in my region were 535g/kWh.  I feel we need to be aware that at times EV emissions can be significant, and being aware of that, we can do our best to minimise those, if indeed we care. Or we can hide behind our “100% renewables tariff”/home solar to pretend our EVs are indeed zero emissions (just as it says on the side of my Leaf).

UnclaimedEnergy

Well all of these renewable generators are locking in power contracts with suppliers to sell them electricity at wholesale prices.

Renewable generators are also using this opportunity to profit as much as they can as most of them set themselves up and financed based on power prices being a quarter of what they are.

[Deleted User]

marcusjclifford said:

Surely there is a disconnect here and they should either be honest or (no way going to happen) keep the prices low as they are using renewables.

Ecotricity is one of three suppliers who are not subject to the Ofgem price cap as all their energy comes from renewable sources (that is; no greenwashing with REGOs). If Green energy is as cheap as some people believe then why is Ecotricity quoting 51.61p/kWh and a daily standing charge of 47.25p/day for my area?

Energy from renewables is only cheap when the sun shines and the wind blows. The price of electricity at the moment is based on the price of the gas used to produce it. As I post, DraxInsights shows that 55% of electricity is coming from gas generation with only 14.77% coming from solar and wind.

Yes, the wholesale price of gas is down to 3.415p/kWh today and, as the CEO of Ofgem said on Radio 4 this morning, this will be taken into account as part of the ongoing future Cap assessment process. He also casually dropped into the conversation that suppliers will be required to 'ring fence' consumer credits. Undoubtedly, if this is true, it will increase supplier borrowing and fixed costs.

MattMattMattUK

[Deleted User] said:

marcusjclifford said:

Surely there is a disconnect here and they should either be honest or (no way going to happen) keep the prices low as they are using renewables.

Ecotricity is one of three suppliers who are not subject to the Ofgem price cap as all their energy comes from renewable sources (that is; no greenwashing with REGOs). If Green energy is as cheap as some people believe then why is Ecotricity quoting 51.61p/kWh and a daily standing charge of 47.25p/day for my area?

Renewable energy, much the same as nuclear and hydro is cheap to produce per kWh once installed, but the installation costs are high. Their costs are high to allow them to invest in building renewable capacity.

[Deleted User] said:

Energy from renewables is only cheap when the sun shines and the wind blows. The price of electricity at the moment is based on the price of the gas used to produce it. As I post, DraxInsights shows that 55% of electricity is coming from gas generation with only 14.77% coming from solar and wind.

Whilst somewhat true, with a wider divarication of supply, both in terms of type of generation and geographic location the issues of unfavourable generation conditions can be somewhat mitigated. 

[Deleted User] said:

Yes, the wholesale price of gas is down to 3.415p/kWh today and, as the CEO of Ofgem said on Radio 4 this morning, this will be taken into account as part of the ongoing future Cap assessment process.

The price cap has always been set based on the cost of wholesale supply over the reference period, but it is unsurprising gas prices have dropped over the last week as demand is down significantly (warmer weather reducing heating usage, windier and sunnier increasing renewable generation).

[Deleted User] said:
He also casually dropped into the conversation that suppliers will be required to 'ring fence' consumer credits. Undoubtedly, if this is true, it will increase supplier borrowing and fixed costs.

It would make sense to ring fence consumer credits, as well as possibly capping the amount of credit a consumer can build up and that probably should have been in place a decade or more ago. If it had been it would have removed almost all of the costs associated with the SoLR process. 

MWT

MattMattMattUK said:

It would make sense to ring fence consumer credits, as well as possibly capping the amount of credit a consumer can build up and that probably should have been in place a decade or more ago. If it had been it would have removed almost all of the costs associated with the SoLR process. 

It would have removed those costs mainly by preventing the failed suppliers from ever existing in the first place, which some may of course regard as a good thing I guess...

brewerdave

MWT said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It would make sense to ring fence consumer credits, as well as possibly capping the amount of credit a consumer can build up and that probably should have been in place a decade or more ago. If it had been it would have removed almost all of the costs associated with the SoLR process. 

It would have removed those costs mainly by preventing the failed suppliers from ever existing in the first place, which some may of course regard as a good thing I guess...

Or they would have existed - but we would now have a series of "Maxwell cases" on our hands !!

[Deleted User]

MWT said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It would make sense to ring fence consumer credits, as well as possibly capping the amount of credit a consumer can build up and that probably should have been in place a decade or more ago. If it had been it would have removed almost all of the costs associated with the SoLR process. 

It would have removed those costs mainly by preventing the failed suppliers from ever existing in the first place, which some may of course regard as a good thing I guess...

There are better ways. In my view, Ofgem should adopt the CAA Bond model. When an entity applies for an Operating Licence it places a Bond with the CAA based on the maximum number of passenger seats in its approved fleet. If, subsequently, the airline wants to increase the size of its fleet then it effectively goes through a re-licensing process and, inter alia, it increases the size of its Bond. This would avoid un-regulated increases in consumer numbers which, in turn, results in increasing numbers of consumer complaints etc. Moreover, this process would ensure that Ofgem has full regulatory oversight of the suppliers under its control. At the moment, Ofgem is making policies on the back of its own internal oversight failures.