Should my brother get 1/5th if mums estate ( morally )

rose28454

My father died 10 years ago and mum died in January. Originally mums and dads wills had oldest brother and sister as executors but couple of years ago mum made it all 5 of her children. Main reason is my oldest sister lives abroad and the brother would probably just ride roughshod over all our wishes. Dad was Italian and worked hard all his life on a farm and when he retired he was persuaded to invest in a number of business by my brother. First business went bust ( brother just bled it dry ) and Dad lost his original investment (£25000 we think ). Then onto the next business which also then included my brother’s brother in law. This business was bled dry by brother and the brother in law and to keep it afloat dad was persuaded to remortgage his house ( he was by now in his seventies) and even though the solicitor advised him not to he went ahead. The other 2 parties continued to draw a salary but dad did not . This business went bust and dad had a small apartment in Italy which he sold and gave brother money to buy the business from the administrators on condition younger brother was taken on to help in the business. Basically all that money was used to pay personal debt and both brother and wife were forbidden from being company directors for 5 years for not paying for the company ( ie they kept dads money to pay personal debt)
All my other brother and sisters were persuaded to pay this mortgage and at one point it was discussed that maybe it could be made repayment so at least it would decrease. Mum and dad were persuaded without our knowledge to renegotiate it as a 50 year interest only mortgage. So I cared for my parents the last 10 years ( at least 6 of those I lived on carers allowance with a small top up from mum and dad. Brother is now a successful property developer ( or so we are led to believe ) and lives in a million pound property and drives a Porsche. So mum died leaving a £40000 mortgage to be repaid and £8000 loan for new windows ( arranged when dad died ) enough in the bank to pay for the funeral and the bills for about 6 months on the house. House is worth about £300000 and the money is supposed to be divided 5 ways. I would like to think my brother would realise that the mortgage is actually his responsibility as he profited from it not the rest of us
So should I bring up the Mortgage or let it lie and divide the money 5 ways. He rarely came near mum
After dad died and was apparently quite rude about her weight on occasions in her later years

Flugelhorn

 I would feel that your brother has already had his share but suspect likely to cause problems if you do bring up the subject 

JReacher1

I don’t think there is anything legal there that says your brother shouldn’t receive his share. Not sure how you can exclude him. 

Ms_Chocaholic

rose28454 said:

My father died 10 years ago and mum died in January. Originally mums and dads wills had oldest brother and sister as executors but couple of years ago mum made it all 5 of her children. Main reason is my oldest sister lives abroad and the brother would probably just ride roughshod over all our wishes. Dad was Italian and worked hard all his life on a farm and when he retired he was persuaded to invest in a number of business by my brother. First business went bust ( brother just bled it dry ) and Dad lost his original investment (£25000 we think ). Then onto the next business which also then included my brother’s brother in law. This business was bled dry by brother and the brother in law and to keep it afloat dad was persuaded to remortgage his house ( he was by now in his seventies) and even though the solicitor advised him not to he went ahead. The other 2 parties continued to draw a salary but dad did not . This business went bust and dad had a small apartment in Italy which he sold and gave brother money to buy the business from the administrators on condition younger brother was taken on to help in the business. Basically all that money was used to pay personal debt and both brother and wife were forbidden from being company directors for 5 years for not paying for the company ( ie they kept dads money to pay personal debt)
All my other brother and sisters were persuaded to pay this mortgage and at one point it was discussed that maybe it could be made repayment so at least it would decrease. Mum and dad were persuaded without our knowledge to renegotiate it as a 50 year interest only mortgage. So I cared for my parents the last 10 years ( at least 6 of those I lived on carers allowance with a small top up from mum and dad. Brother is now a successful property developer ( or so we are led to believe ) and lives in a million pound property and drives a Porsche. So mum died leaving a £40000 mortgage to be repaid and £8000 loan for new windows ( arranged when dad died ) enough in the bank to pay for the funeral and the bills for about 6 months on the house. House is worth about £300000 and the money is supposed to be divided 5 ways. I would like to think my brother would realise that the mortgage is actually his responsibility as he profited from it not the rest of us
So should I bring up the Mortgage or let it lie and divide the money 5 ways. He rarely came near mum
After dad died and was apparently quite rude about her weight on occasions in her later years

If the mortgage is in your late mum's name I don't think there's much you can do legally sadly.

rose28454

I am well aware that legally the will
says split is 5 ways my question is really should I address the mortgage and the reason for it when the house is sold. I don’t have much of a relationship with him anyway as I wrote him a letter telling what I thought Of how he treated them a few years ago. 

At least 2 of my siblings agree with me but whether they would back me up is another story. 

Savvy_Sue

All 5 of you are executors.

Are you taking the lead?

First hint you're thinking of not following the will, surely he'll seek to have you removed as executor and then you'll lose sight of what goes on.

You can by all means ask if he's prepared to give up some of his inheritance, but honestly, unless he's a reformed character, what are the chances?

Stick to what's legal. Your parents could have left him less, they could have recorded that they'd lent him money. They didn't. 

Keep_pedalling

If the payment your father made to your brother from the capital raised from the mortgage was a loan rather than a gift then he still owns that debt if he lent the money directly to your brother rather than the limited company. 

If that is not the case ask him if in fairness he is willing to make a dead of variation to give up his share. Unfortunate people like your bother are not usually bothered about fairness they will just take what they can get regardless of how much they already.

rose28454

Keep_pedalling said:

If the payment your father made to your brother from the capital raised from the mortgage was a loan rather than a gift then he still owns that debt if he lent the money directly to your brother rather than the limited company. 

If that is not the case ask him if in fairness he is willing to make a dead of variation to give up his share. Unfortunate people like your bother are not usually bothered about fairness they will just take what they can get regardless of how much they already.

I’m not sure if the solicitor did any papers to make it a loan. The others all paid the mortgage up to dads death and gradually all cancelled their contributions ( eldest brother first ! ) and mum then paid it from her pension. 

I’ll look through his papers. Regardless of legalities I think I am going to say something once we have an offer on the house 

Pollycat

rose28454 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

If the payment your father made to your brother from the capital raised from the mortgage was a loan rather than a gift then he still owns that debt if he lent the money directly to your brother rather than the limited company. 

If that is not the case ask him if in fairness he is willing to make a dead of variation to give up his share. Unfortunate people like your bother are not usually bothered about fairness they will just take what they can get regardless of how much they already.

I’m not sure if the solicitor did any papers to make it a loan. The others all paid the mortgage up to dads death and gradually all cancelled their contributions ( eldest brother first ! ) and mum then paid it from her pension. 

I’ll look through his papers. Regardless of legalities I think I am going to say something once we have an offer on the house 

If it was me, I would talk to the other siblings and try to present a united front to your brother.
And I'd do it before you get an offer on the house. 
 

rose28454 said:
I am well aware that legally the will
says split is 5 ways my question is really should I address the mortgage and the reason for it when the house is sold. I don’t have much of a relationship with him anyway as I wrote him a letter telling what I thought Of how he treated them a few years ago. 

At least 2 of my siblings agree with me but whether they would back me up is another story. 

NorthYorkie

You clearly need legal advice as to whether it is possible to mount a challenge the will. As an executor, if you choose to act as such, you are obliged to carry out the terms of the will (if it is valid).

Pollycat

NorthYorkie said:

You clearly need legal advice as to whether it is possible to mount a challenge the will. As an executor, if you choose to act as such, you are obliged to carry out the terms of the will (if it is valid).

I don't think the OP means to actually challenge the will.

I read it as she is hoping to appeal to the brother to get him to agree that he should pay the outstanding mortgage (rather than the £40K come out of the total estate) - hence the use of 'morally' in the thread title.