Second degree takers - funding changes heads up

Oldernotwiser

mark1024 wrote: »

I also asked you to imagine yourself in the situation I described, which hopefully transcends your life experiences. .

No need to imagine as I've been in this situation myself; 2 terms of teacher training that then led to being told that there was NO funding to do a degree a couple of years later because of this.

Also, I'm not arguing about the WORTH of second degrees but alternative ways of getting to the same place. Why would a graduate want to start a full Psychology degree from scratch when there are much shorter conversion courses around or do a 3 year degree in Social Work when they can do a 2 year Masters degree to enter the same profession? Even if second degrees were fully funded, most people would want to save their time so that they could get started on their new career as soon as possible.

mark1024

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Also, I'm not arguing about the WORTH of second degrees but alternative ways of getting to the same place. Why would a graduate want to start a full Psychology degree from scratch when there are much shorter conversion courses around or do a 3 year degree in Social Work when they can do a 2 year Masters degree to enter the same profession? /QUOTE]


My experience of education is that three years is not long enough to do a degree. Twenty years ago I scarcely touched my reading list, and not through lack of effort. Its the same now. I work in the studio until very late in the evening, and spend all the rest of my time reading theory. Again, I have barely made a dent on the reading list. And the thing is, despite what people say, I am of the mind that this is important, and integral to higher learning. So offer me a two year foundation degree, and all I see is another example of the increasingly shallow nature of society.

I would also suggest that I am not an untypical example of the mature student, and we are a good thing in the undergraduate mix.

Now, off to the library...

Oldernotwiser

mark1024 wrote: »

So offer me a two year foundation degree, and all I see is another example of the increasingly shallow nature of society.

Foundation degrees are something completely different and we haven't been discussing them! They're intended to be far less academic than traditional degrees and aimed at a rather different type of student. Think HNC?D rather than degree.

Considering the way that so many students waste time in their first year and the amount of time that has to be spent teaching study skills and rectifying A level gaps, an experienced, motivated student can easily cover the same amount of work in 2 years on a conversion course, or similar.

Enjoy the library; I envy you.

The_One_Who

It might have something to do with school pupils feeling all but obliged to go to university. Schools rarely tell them about any other routes and not going to university is seen as some sort of failure, even if that is what is best for you. There are also school pupils who question whether they will be 'too old' for university even after just a year's gap year and so go to university because they are so desperate to fit in.

This means more and more people are going to university without a clear idea of what they are even wanting to study. I don't believe in going to university to get a job, but to learn. People are just picking a subject they liked or were good at at school and don't pay that much consideration to having to do that subject for the next three or four years.

melancholly

sparklygirl wrote: »

My first degree is Physiotherapy from which I graduated in 2004. Of the few parts of this degree that I did enjoy, then my mental health work placement was one of them. I found it fascinating. I also have further experience of working with people with mental health issues.

The career I want is to do is Clinical Psychology. The training route for this is an honours degree in psychology, followed by relevant work experience/asst psychologist post, followed by a doctoral training course in clinical psychology.
I have looked into it a bit more today, plus I have read all of the reply posts on this thread. I do have possible options and I am now not seeing it as an impossible ambition
I am in it for the eventual career and not just to be able to go back to university.

have you spoken to someone who works in admissions on a clinical psychology course? it may be that since you have experience of working in mental health, a psychology degree may not necessary. a lot of a psychology degree is not at all related to clinical work so you may find that it's not the only option for you given your background.

it is also something that can be done through the OU, even on a part time basis, so don't rule that out. i have known people get OU degrees in psychology and go on to the level of a professor relatively quickly, so it has a good reputation.

your work experience is also key for a clinical place (which will be, in reality, very competitive to get!). you already have some that's relevant, which is great. without knowing more about your experience, it may also be possible to just get more of it and go straight into clinical - but that's where contacting an admissions tutor is going to get the best information.



as far as funding second degrees goes and it being unfair to change.... well i started uni just after fees were introduced so i know all about sudden, unfair (breaking election pledges!) decisions. but complaining isn't going to fix it. finding a way to manage is what's important! if it's going to the OU and paying with tesco vouchers, then sobeit. if it's studying part time or taking shorter courses, then great. there are a whole variety of people on this site who have vast experience of how to cope, but not always all that much sympathy with the 'poor me' way of putting things across which is being propogated by someone who didn't even ask a question in the first place :rolleyes:

Chai_2

As a psychology student, i can tell you that you do not need to do a three year degree. At most you will need to do a year and a half conversion course (if you had done any psychology courses before it would have been a year of study) and then go onto the clinical training.
It can be done part time in the evening at most uni's or at the OU as has been stated before.
It maybe worth going to see a course advisor at the uni of your choice first to confirm that the role you are aiming for will fulfill your ambitions (the role of a clinical psychologist is often not full explained until you apply!!)

Good luck

Oldernotwiser

Chai wrote: »

As a psychology student, i can tell you that you do not need to do a three year degree. At most you will need to do a year and a half conversion course (if you had done any psychology courses before it would have been a year of study) and then go onto the clinical training.
It can be done part time in the evening at most uni's or at the OU as has been stated before.
It maybe worth going to see a course advisor at the uni of your choice first to confirm that the role you are aiming for will fulfill your ambitions (the role of a clinical psychologist is often not full explained until you apply!!)

Good luck

Thank you for confirming my point from a personal perspective. Sometimes people think advisors are making it all up!

louiseaj08

farso wrote: »

I think there is a very real reason for this limit of one heavily subsidied degree per person, hoever much people may think it sucks.

1) its not fair making the tax payers foot the bill for another thing that you might go into for two years then decide... "bah, maybe i dont like this at all, but not to worry, ill get another degree after"

2) Stopping perpetual students who really just dont want to do a proper days work.



I think this quote highlights how many people at the age of 17 just decide, "Id like to learn about ***, even though there are no job prospects in this area"
The idea of a degree lends itself to researching what you want to do after you are going to graduate.
18 year olds wish to be treated as adults, and therefore their actions are treated as if they were, so take responsability for the choices you had taken in your past, and face up to the way it has shaped your life.

This quote is very judgemental and unfair.

Up to now the government hasn't had any options for student to gain further learning and experience other than university degrees. Apprenticeships have only been in thing such as hairdressing, plumbing etc. So nearly all students that want to better themselves end up going to uni and all parents that want this for their children encourage them. The government also adds to the encouragement for young people to go to uni and the increaased job prospects that used to be available to you made this a great thing to do.

Some people think long and hard about their decision.

My example. I studied Biomedical Science, I did not make this decision on a whim, I really thought about it and I thought this would be something I'd really enjoy and would be good for me to do etc I got there and like the person you'd just been very unfair to, I hated it.

Problem is there is NO WAY whatsoever I could have possibly known what the degree would involve without doing it. Some people like A level Psychology or French so they do a degree in Psychology or french. I did A-level Biology and AS Chemistry and the course was very different to those.

Obviously I visited all 6 prospective unis before I applied, I heard them talk about the course, I read the information in the prospectus, that's as much information I could get apart from doing it myself.

And this job has LOADS of prospects, this is why I chose to do the accredited degree. I thought through it thoroughly.

What I'm getting at is u assumed that some people decide on a whim when some do really think it through. And like the other person, I didn't want to be a quitter and at age 18 I didn't know what other job I wanted to do for the next 40 years and it's crazy for you to assume most young people would or should know this.

For what reason should the course fee be any higher for a person doing a second degree? People should be given options. If the government doesnt want u to "chop and change" as you're expressing it they should make people very aware when applying for loans and grants that they are only eligible to any funding whatsoever for their first degree and to make the decision carefully because you won't be able to retrain to do anything else unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

Some people need to think before they speak and not make assumptions about people they know nothing about.

You assume young people don't think and are careless but me and several of my friends really thought through their decision. In actual fact it was my ADULT parents, friends and family friends that told me to keep trying, to seek help and not to give up.

As an adult you should already know that you can plan something for years and it sometimes doesn't work out. That's life but people shouldn't be punished for discovering that they really don't like something entirely new to them, there should be more options for young people and it should be made known to them that there are these options, and people like you as an older, wiser person (well supposed to be anyway) should give younger people the support they need rather than having an "I told u so/that's what u get for doing that" attitude which is mean and doesn't help anyone.

Taiko

Ting is, they do. It actually says in the guidance notes about ELQ's, and you are now directed to the regulations for specific courses that are exempt. The information is there, you just have to have a look.

Although saying that, you did look back a few years for this thread and resurrected it. A lot changed since then.

Oldernotwiser

louiseaj08 wrote: »

That's life but people shouldn't be punished for discovering that they really don't like something entirely new to them, there should be more options for young people and it should be made known to them that there are these options, and people like you as an older, wiser person (well supposed to be anyway) should give younger people the support they need rather than having an "I told u so/that's what u get for doing that" attitude which is mean and doesn't help anyone.

Things are very much easier for people who want to change their mind nowadays as the funding is based on the formula of course years plus 1, allowing people to make a mistake and start a new course.

In the past, if you had studied for even part of a year and changed your mind, when you came to apply for funding for the new course the whole course moved to being discretionary rather than mandatory. Some people were offered funding but there was no guarantee.

When I came to reapply for university, after dropping out of a course after a term 5 years earlier, I was told that if I supported myself through the first year they might consider funding the second two years but thatthere was no guarantee that they would.