Need advice on invoice not paid now company has gone into liquidation

Jimmy_Boy

I did post about this issue here : https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6340779/boiler-leak-not-fixed-by-plumber#latest

TL:DR - Boiler was leaking, phoned plumber, he agreed to fix it, he called round to install the parts, in the process he connected an electrical connection which he got wet which then caused the part he connected it to smoke, he then replaced this broken part with a second hand part from his van. After all this, there was now a new leak. After a week or so the boiler stopped working completely meaning no central heating or hot water, and still a leaky boiler!

I tried to make contact with him a couple times to discuss the options, but to be honest I was so unimpressed with his workmanship and customer skills I really didnt want him to come back.

Anyway, fast forward a month and I receive a letter from an insolvency company saying that the business has gone into liquidation and I have an outstanding balance to pay.

I replied to the liquidation company advising of what has happened, and received a reply today demanding evidence of trying to contact the company and also dismissing everything I had said and are demanding payment within a week.

Im really unhappy about having to pay for someone to essentially make my boiler problem worse than it was.

What should I do ?

Thanks in advance.

IvanOpinion

I have no idea of the law on this, but personally I would refuse to pay and explain that he failed to complete the work to a satisfactory standard.  Tell them that you intend to get another plumber to complete the work and if there is any balance left over once completed you will consider paying the difference to them (of course there will be no balance).

Have you paid anything for the work done? And if so how much and what payment method?  
How much is outstanding?

Jimmy_Boy

I havent paid anything yet, the invoice was for £190 (£80 Materials, £10 delivery and £70 labour).

I feel its very unfair for me to be expected to pay for someone to fix a leak, when a) they dont fix the leak, b) they damage a part in the process and replace it with a second hand part, c) my boiler stopped working completely meaning no heating or hot water and having to run a bath by boiling the kettle 30 or 40 times costing a small fortune in electric and taking about 2 hours!

Unfortunately I have no evidence of this! As sods law would have it, about a week ago my boiler magically started working again, which doesnt help my case... BUT I do still have a leaky boiler, and that is what he was appointed to fix.

born_again

I would say you are going to have to get someone to give you a report that they have not fixed the issue. Then argue the case with the  liquidation company.

Jimmy_Boy

Yes, I believe this is what I am going to need to do. The tone of the letter from the insolvency company has made me even more annoyed and reluctant to pay than I already was.

Would I need to get another plumber to do a report, or is there a particular tradesperson I should be contacting ?

Thanks in advance.

Jimmy_Boy

I am pondering my options here... the email from the insolvency company makes it very clear they are not up to discussing the matter and want payment within 7 days. My fear is if I dont pay (how long do I legally have?) they will pass it on to a debt collection agency and in turn I will incur additional costs and the whole thing could get messy.

Im wondering if my best option is to pay in protest (is there such a thing?) and then try to recover my money through a small claims court, as I dont believe I have that option available to me at the moment.

The insolvency company obviously has a bias in wanting to collect the funds, and has totally dismissed the fact that my boiler is still leaking. 

Regardless, I feel I need to get someone independent in to write a report on the issues found. Should I just go ahead with this or converse with the insolvency company before hand, showing (for future) that I am trying to work with them to come to an agreement.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Jimmy_Boy said:

I am pondering my options here... the email from the insolvency company makes it very clear they are not up to discussing the matter and want payment within 7 days. My fear is if I dont pay (how long do I legally have?) they will pass it on to a debt collection agency and in turn I will incur additional costs and the whole thing could get messy.

Debt collectors generally can't add fees to a debt. 

I recall your other thread but can't remember the out come, do you have any text messages or emails with the plumber talking about the issue to show one existed? 

Do you have any messages or emails with another plumber discussing fixing the issue?

Services should be carried out with due care and skill, where they aren't you are entitled to a repeat performance, where this doesn't occur you are entitled to a price reduction which can be up to the full contract price depending up the situation. 

It sounds as if the work carried out didn't fix the issue and possibly caused more damage so I can't see any payment is due. 

I would go back to the insolvency company and point out the below stating you won't be paying and are happy to defend your position in small claims.

If they pass to a debt collection agency then dispute the debt and they should send it back to the insolvency company. If the insolvency company sell the debt then tell the debt collection company the below stating you won't be paying and are happy to defend your position in small claims.

Worst case scenario you'd need another plumber to give something in writing to state the first plumber's repair was sufficient and, if it occurred, that his services caused further damaged beyond the original problem. 

It would be interesting to know whether you'd have a claim for damages against anyone who takes on ownership of a debt, as if you did and more damage was caused by the first plumber than the his bill you could suggest to the insolvency company you'll be counter claiming against them for your loses. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/49/enacted

Service to be performed with reasonable care and skill

(1)Every contract to supply a service is to be treated as including a term that the trader must perform the service with reasonable care and skill.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/4/crossheading/what-remedies-are-there-if-statutory-rights-under-a-services-contract-are-not-met/enacted

Right to repeat performance

(1)The right to require repeat performance is a right to require the trader to perform the service again, to the extent necessary to complete its performance in conformity with the contract.

(2)If the consumer requires such repeat performance, the trader—

(a)must provide it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer; and

(b)must bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour or materials).

Right to price reduction

(1)The right to a price reduction is the right to require the trader to reduce the price to the consumer by an appropriate amount (including the right to receive a refund for anything already paid above the reduced amount).

(2)The amount of the reduction may, where appropriate, be the full amount of the price.

(3)A consumer who has that right and the right to require repeat performance is only entitled to a price reduction in one of these situations—

(a)because of section 55(3) the consumer cannot require repeat performance; or

(b)the consumer has required repeat performance, but the trader is in breach of the requirement of section 55(2)(a) to do it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

Sicard

Personally I'd get a decent plumber to fix it and at the same time get them to write a report stating the poor workmanship and condition of the boiler before they fixed it, then send that to the !!!!!! at the insolvency company. If they then threaten court action (small claims) your case should hold up strongly.

Jimmy_Boy

Thanks for the replies and sorry for the delay in replying.

I believe ive weakened my position somewhat by lack of communication.

As I explained in my other thread I really was not happy with the visit, he was very unprofessional, and by the time he completed the job I just wanted him to get out. I did point out to him at the end of the visit that there was still a drip coming from one of the pipes to which he replied 'I dont know why that is', wiped it down and said 'that should be fine now'. I was just glad to get rid of him.

With that in mind, when I realised there was still a leak, I really wasnt sure my best course of action (hence the other thread asking for advice), as I really did NOT want him back, but also wanted my boiler fixed.

So I tried ringing him on about 3 separate occasions over about a two week period. The phone rang out and went to answerphone to which I did not leave any voicemail as I wanted to speak to him directly. I think this hurts my position quite badly.

The liquidation company want me to provide evidence of my phone calls as the 'very advance telephone system' (BS!) has no log of me calling.

Figuring he would want his money, I assumed he would make contact with me by phone or mail and then I could pick it up again, but he obviously went into receivership and now im having to deal with the liquidation company.

I think the biggest weakness in my case is lack of communication, which is my bad, but I do work nightshift working from 4PM to 2AM, tend to get to sleep about 6AM / 7AM and wake about 3PM, so I dont actually have much time in normal 9 to 5 working hours to spend on such things.

In addition to this leak, I did have a period where the boiler stopped working completely (never happened before), the boiler was reading a constant 99 degrees so would not heat any water, then got several error messages on the boiler. When this happened I just turned the boiler off, and had baths by boiling the kettle.

Im kicking myself because I didnt take photo's or video when this happened. After about 2 weeks I thought it would be good to record some evidence of my boiler not functioning, turned it on... OMG it works (still leaks). Mixed emotions as I can now have a bath with hot water from the boiler but lost the opportunity to prove that my boiler was not functioning.

I am going to reply to the insolvency company reiterating the fact and that I still have a leaky boiler and refuse payment until a satisfactory conclusion has been reached, and point out the statutory rights posted above.

If they still insist on payment then I think I will need to get a 3rd party to come and asses the work carried out and write a report. Should I ask if they are willing to provide this service (at there expense) as at the moment they are offering absolutely nothing to resolve my issue, and just want payment.

Thanks so much for your advice.

tightauldgit

Jimmy_Boy said:

I am pondering my options here... the email from the insolvency company makes it very clear they are not up to discussing the matter and want payment within 7 days. My fear is if I dont pay (how long do I legally have?) they will pass it on to a debt collection agency and in turn I will incur additional costs and the whole thing could get messy.

Im wondering if my best option is to pay in protest (is there such a thing?) and then try to recover my money through a small claims court, as I dont believe I have that option available to me at the moment.

The insolvency company obviously has a bias in wanting to collect the funds, and has totally dismissed the fact that my boiler is still leaking. 

Regardless, I feel I need to get someone independent in to write a report on the issues found. Should I just go ahead with this or converse with the insolvency company before hand, showing (for future) that I am trying to work with them to come to an agreement.

Don't do this. If you pay you will never see your money again. 

Just write to the insolvency company stating that the work was never completed to a satisfactory standard and that you have been unable to contact the plumber to remedy the situation (presumably because his business has gone into liquidation!) 

Then leave the ball in their court - if they want to waste money taking you to court over a £200 debt then so be it but I would bet they wouldn't when it came to the crunch. It will be probably be written off as a unrecoverable debt. They will no doubt insist you pay, but that's their job - to recover as much money as they can.   

Jimmy_Boy

Do I HAVE to provide the required evidence of phone calls as being requested? Apparently my iPhone stores 100 'Recents' and appears my phone calls to the plumber where more than 100 calls ago, hence not in my 'Recents' list.