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Which is greener; ASHP or EV?

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  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 5,117 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 12 April 2022 at 6:54PM
    Magnitio said:
    shinytop said:
    ABrass said:
    Interesting, but flawed.

    An EV also saves money compared to an ICE as well as reducing carbon. Heat pumps at best break even at the moment. If you're just looking at the up front cost rather than the running cost you're missing the majority of the costs for the heat pump and the majority of the savings for the EV.
    A fair point as the OP was focusing mainly on C02 and not £.  But most CO2/green savings arguments are flawed, including the ones that compare EVs with ICEvs

    The financial case for EVs is weakening because of changing electricity and petrol prices. I'm not sure it's even there any more for an average motorist paying with taxed earnings.  That will change if/when EVs get cheaper of course, or we move away from simply replicating large, heavy, fast ICEs with identical (apart from the engine) EVs.  

    Comparison of Tesla Model 3 and BMW 330 which are reasonably comparable cars.

    BMW - assume 43 mpg and £7.20 per gallon. Fuel cost for 12,000 miles per annum = £2,009. VED £230 year one, £510 from year two.
    Tesla - assume 4 miles per kWh. Electric at best case of approx 5p/kWh = £150. Worst case at 35p/kWh = £1,050. Assuming home charging. You would need to average 65p+/kWh to be more expensive than the BMW. VED = £0.

    Servicing costs are also lower for the BEV, though difficult to gauge by how much.

    Over 4 year ownership and 48,000 miles, the savings would be between £5,500 and £9,000.

    The bigger costs are depreciation and, currently, BEV's are generally outperforming ICE equivalents.
    I agree with most of what you say but is there any evidence to support your comments in the last paragraph “The bigger costs are depreciation [I agree with that bit] and, currently, BEVs are generally outperforming ICE equivalents”. 

    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • Reed_Richards
    Reed_Richards Posts: 5,287 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Magnitio said:

    Comparison of Tesla Model 3 and BMW 330 which are reasonably comparable cars.

    Over 4 year ownership and 48,000 miles, the savings would be between £5,500 and £9,000.

    But surely I can save a lot more than £9000 by not splashing out on an expensive model of car like either of those.  Save the planet; get a cheaper car and a heat pump
    Reed
  • ispookie666
    ispookie666 Posts: 1,194 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Completely agree @Reed_Richards
    I recently purchased a Volvo diesel  :#  and used the difference to pretty much cover 6.6KWp panels, 2*Givenergy battery(on back order) and will be adding a 3rd A2ASHP(planning permission limiting).  

    As someone mentioned, we should all be aiming at low hanging fruits.  

    “Don't raise your voice, improve your argument." - Desmond Tutu

    System 1 - 14 x 250W SunModule SW + Enphase ME215 microinverters (July 2015)
    System 2 - 9.2 KWp + Enphase IQ7+ and IQ8AC (Feb 22 & Sep 24) + Givenergy AC Coupled inverter + 2 * 8.2KWh Battery (May 2022) + Mitsubishi 7.1 KW and 2* Daikin 2.5 KW A2A Heat Pump
  • Solarchaser
    Solarchaser Posts: 1,758 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Interesting discussion,  thanks all
    West central Scotland
    4kw sse since 2014 and 6.6kw wsw / ene split since 2019
    24kwh leaf, 75Kwh Tesla and Lux 3600 with 60Kwh storage
  • Magnitio
    Magnitio Posts: 1,207 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    JKenH said:

    I agree with most of what you say but is there any evidence to support your comments in the last paragraph “The bigger costs are depreciation [I agree with that bit] and, currently, BEVs are generally outperforming ICE equivalents”. 

    I don't think the articles that refer to Lamborghini, Porsche, Range Rover, Lotus etc. are really relevant. And I shouldn't generalise because there are BEV's that perform quite poorly for resale value and we cannot accurately predict what will happen with current models over the next 3-4 years. The Tesla vs BMW example, based on Parkers Guide, shows 75% retained value for the Tesla after 3 years vs 56% for BMW. Porsche Taycan 78%, Porsche Panamera 65%. However, it is the other way round for cars such as VW Golf, Hyundai Ioniq, Renault Zoe - mostly 1st generation electric cars with small batteries and range that is even more limited as they get older.
    6.4kWp (16 * 400Wp REC Alpha) facing ESE + 5kW Huawei inverter + 10kWh Huawei battery. Buckinghamshire.
  • Magnitio
    Magnitio Posts: 1,207 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Magnitio said:

    Comparison of Tesla Model 3 and BMW 330 which are reasonably comparable cars.

    Over 4 year ownership and 48,000 miles, the savings would be between £5,500 and £9,000.

    But surely I can save a lot more than £9000 by not splashing out on an expensive model of car like either of those.  Save the planet; get a cheaper car and a heat pump

    Agreed. I walk or cycle where possible and have a 5-year old Golf when I need it. I don't have an electric car at the moment as it doesn't make finacial or environmental sense given the low mileage I travel.

    I chose the Tesla Model 3 for this example as it was the best selling electric car in UK last year and the BMW as it is the most obvious petrol-powered competitor.
    6.4kWp (16 * 400Wp REC Alpha) facing ESE + 5kW Huawei inverter + 10kWh Huawei battery. Buckinghamshire.
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