Which is greener; ASHP or EV?

JKenH

Magnitio said:

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Interesting, but flawed.

An EV also saves money compared to an ICE as well as reducing carbon. Heat pumps at best break even at the moment. If you're just looking at the up front cost rather than the running cost you're missing the majority of the costs for the heat pump and the majority of the savings for the EV.

A fair point as the OP was focusing mainly on C02 and not £.  But most CO2/green savings arguments are flawed, including the ones that compare EVs with ICEvs

The financial case for EVs is weakening because of changing electricity and petrol prices. I'm not sure it's even there any more for an average motorist paying with taxed earnings.  That will change if/when EVs get cheaper of course, or we move away from simply replicating large, heavy, fast ICEs with identical (apart from the engine) EVs.  

Comparison of Tesla Model 3 and BMW 330 which are reasonably comparable cars.

BMW - assume 43 mpg and £7.20 per gallon. Fuel cost for 12,000 miles per annum = £2,009. VED £230 year one, £510 from year two.

Tesla - assume 4 miles per kWh. Electric at best case of approx 5p/kWh = £150. Worst case at 35p/kWh = £1,050. Assuming home charging. You would need to average 65p+/kWh to be more expensive than the BMW. VED = £0.

Servicing costs are also lower for the BEV, though difficult to gauge by how much.

Over 4 year ownership and 48,000 miles, the savings would be between £5,500 and £9,000.

The bigger costs are depreciation and, currently, BEV's are generally outperforming ICE equivalents.

I agree with most of what you say but is there any evidence to support your comments in the last paragraph “The bigger costs are depreciation [I agree with that bit] and, currently, BEVs are generally outperforming ICE equivalents”. 

Because of the chip/parts shortage most cars are in short supply and this is supporting used prices for ICE as well as BEVs.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/selling/cars-that-hold-their-value

https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-slowest-depreciating-cars-in-2022/n17098

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/107122/car-depreciation-the-cars-that-hold-their-value-best

Reed_Richards

Magnitio said:

Comparison of Tesla Model 3 and BMW 330 which are reasonably comparable cars.

Over 4 year ownership and 48,000 miles, the savings would be between £5,500 and £9,000.

But surely I can save a lot more than £9000 by not splashing out on an expensive model of car like either of those.  Save the planet; get a cheaper car and a heat pump

ispookie666

Completely agree @Reed_Richards
I recently purchased a Volvo diesel    and used the difference to pretty much cover 6.6KWp panels, 2*Givenergy battery(on back order) and will be adding a 3rd A2ASHP(planning permission limiting).  

As someone mentioned, we should all be aiming at low hanging fruits.  

Solarchaser

Interesting discussion,  thanks all

Magnitio

JKenH said:

I agree with most of what you say but is there any evidence to support your comments in the last paragraph “The bigger costs are depreciation [I agree with that bit] and, currently, BEVs are generally outperforming ICE equivalents”. 

Because of the chip/parts shortage most cars are in short supply and this is supporting used prices for ICE as well as BEVs.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/selling/cars-that-hold-their-value

https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-slowest-depreciating-cars-in-2022/n17098

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/107122/car-depreciation-the-cars-that-hold-their-value-best

I don't think the articles that refer to Lamborghini, Porsche, Range Rover, Lotus etc. are really relevant. And I shouldn't generalise because there are BEV's that perform quite poorly for resale value and we cannot accurately predict what will happen with current models over the next 3-4 years. The Tesla vs BMW example, based on Parkers Guide, shows 75% retained value for the Tesla after 3 years vs 56% for BMW. Porsche Taycan 78%, Porsche Panamera 65%. However, it is the other way round for cars such as VW Golf, Hyundai Ioniq, Renault Zoe - mostly 1st generation electric cars with small batteries and range that is even more limited as they get older.

Magnitio

Reed_Richards said:

Magnitio said:

Comparison of Tesla Model 3 and BMW 330 which are reasonably comparable cars.

Over 4 year ownership and 48,000 miles, the savings would be between £5,500 and £9,000.

But surely I can save a lot more than £9000 by not splashing out on an expensive model of car like either of those.  Save the planet; get a cheaper car and a heat pump

Agreed. I walk or cycle where possible and have a 5-year old Golf when I need it. I don't have an electric car at the moment as it doesn't make finacial or environmental sense given the low mileage I travel.

I chose the Tesla Model 3 for this example as it was the best selling electric car in UK last year and the BMW as it is the most obvious petrol-powered competitor.