Parking fine going to court - advice welcome

KeithP

Fruitcake said:

I believe all the comments on this thread from the regulars who give up their time for free have been constructive.

I believe so too, but I've deleted mine.

Good luck OP.

PaulBurrell

Fruitcake said:

What happened when you complained to the landowner and restaurant owner if different.

It is never too late to get a landowner cancellation.

It wouldn’t be the restaurant, it is part of The Lowry shopping centre or theatre in Manchester. However, I never thought to speak to who actually owns it directly. I might still have some good standing with them. Thank you.

PaulBurrell

KeithP said:

Fruitcake said:

I believe all the comments on this thread from the regulars who give up their time for free have been constructive.

I believe so too, but I've deleted mine.

Good luck OP.

Your comment was constructive. I probably should have thought twice about the username, save any misunderstanding.

Coupon-mad

Claim came through July 2021, forms filled & defence submitted.
Mediation recently completed but not resolved so now waiting on a court date.

What did your defence say?

Should not have agreed to Mediation (no harm done but see IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN which is a red heading in the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread).

WS and evidence stage next.  See examples by @jrhys and @ricky_balboa

Not_A_Hope

Advice on the following would be greatly appreciated.

1. Given my defence is that I was given to park temporarily by a member of their team, they claimed in the mediation that it’s for me to prove that, which I haven’t other than my word. Is this correct? Does “innocent until proven guilty” not apply ie - they have to prove it didn’t happen?
2. I have given them details of how to trace the person who told me (they were issuing a ticket when I spoke to him). I intend on requesting minor details from the company of parking tickets issued during that date & small timeframe I was there. Is this wise? I expect it to be rejected but wouldn’t this look bad, withholding evidence? Would this play into my hands?
   
3. They can not prove that the first letter was sent to me. Their argument is that “all the other letters got to you, no reason to see why the first didn’t so therefore your appeal was out of time”. They’re saying I can’t prove the conversation happened yet they can’t prove the letter was sent? Isn’t this applying a lack of evidence argument then defending your own actions with the same sort of argument?
4. The length of time it took for them take this to court, thus incurring greater charges? Is this standard? Could this be turned on them to look like an disorganised company, thus backing some of my other points?

Intend to ask them, along with the evidence request, for all the information they have on me, including emails received from me & sent internally under the Data Protection Act 2018 & all letters sent to me. Would anyone advise anything else to request.

-------------------------
1. I wouldn't worry about what any mediator said about a claim for a PCN. They don't understand Parking law and just want you to settle. It is up to the claimant to prove their case in court and what a real judge believes on the balance of probabilities actually happened.

2. You can ask them for any evidence to back up your story but whether they will provide it 
Is another matter. These companies don't want to be fair they just want your money. If your WS evidence shows they are hiding something the judge will take a dim view of it.

3. I wouldn't worry too much at Claim stage that the first PCN letter wasn't sent or received. More than likely any appeal would have been rejected anyway. Not actually sending the PCN might have been a tactic to get you to call them and admit being the driver as well as scam the extra money. Just include it in your WS and don't engage in any further telephone conversations. Get everything in writing.

4. They trawl through old cases hoping to scare people into paying rather than face court. If you actually lost, the court fees would be payable in addition to the original PCN fee but most judges will reject the 8% interest and the double recovery of adding £60 / £70 admin or debt collection charges.

Finally yes you should send a SAR to the PPC (not their solicitors) as suggested in the Newbies thread. You can ask for other information / evidence but are unlikely to get anything that is not personal to you. However if you have used the standard template they will have to provide additional evidence such as having a landholder contract which you can check for validity

PaulBurrell

Coupon-mad said:

Claim came through July 2021, forms filled & defence submitted.
Mediation recently completed but not resolved so now waiting on a court date.

What did your defence say?

Should not have agreed to Mediation (no harm done but see IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN which is a red heading in the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread).

WS and evidence stage next.  See examples by @jrhys and @ricky_balboa

Below is my defence…

Defence

I am defending this claim for the following reasons

1) As I have continually stated through my correspondents with
Vehicle Control Services (VCS), I gained permission from an
employee of theirs to park in the area whilst I dropped off some
stock at a restaurant in the area. I have detailed emails
outlining what happened on 31/10/2016.

2) The claimant state that I agreed to pay the fine. This is
false. I have emails showing I appealed this fine as soon as I was
aware of it, for the above reason.

3) The time frame they have taken to action their claim. They
failed to issue me with the fine for over 3 months. The last
correspondents I had with the claimant was 2018 (this is an email
I sent). As this matter was perceived to be closed, all I have
left is the sent emails from my account. I then received a letter
3 years later in regards to the matter which I was cautious about
due to the time lapsed.


probably made many rookie errors but I submitted this in August last year before coming across this page…. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I did think that about the mediation as I had no intention in paying what they asked for. I did it mainly to show willing on my behalf. 

I’m going to have a really thorough read of all the highlighted posted. Thank you for your time, really appreciate it.

PaulBurrell

Not_A_Hope said:

1. I wouldn't worry about what any mediator said about a claim for a PCN. They don't understand Parking law and just want you to settle. It is up to the claimant to prove their case in court and what a real judge believes on the balance of probabilities actually happened.

2. You can ask them for any evidence to back up your story but whether they will provide it 
Is another matter. These companies don't want to be fair they just want your money. If your WS evidence shows they are hiding something the judge will take a dim view of it.

3. I wouldn't worry too much at Claim stage that the first PCN letter wasn't sent or received. More than likely any appeal would have been rejected anyway. Not actually sending the PCN might have been a tactic to get you to call them and admit being the driver as well as scam the extra money. Just include it in your WS and don't engage in any further telephone conversations. Get everything in writing.

4. They trawl through old cases hoping to scare people into paying rather than face court. If you actually lost, the court fees would be payable in addition to the original PCN fee but most judges will reject the 8% interest and the double recovery of adding £60 / £70 admin or debt collection charges.

Finally yes you should send a SAR to the PPC (not their solicitors) as suggested in the Newbies thread. You can ask for other information / evidence but are unlikely to get anything that is not personal to you. However if you have used the standard template they will have to provide additional evidence such as having a landholder contract which you can check for validity

This is really good advice, thank you very much.

PaulBurrell

Not_A_Hope said:

You may also have a defence that loading and unloading is not actually classed as parking. You can include this in your defence and quote the relevant court case that determined this.

Took a picture of this at the location yesterday. Sadly I can’t get evidence of transferring the stock as the system does not go back that far but will a witness statement from the current manager who received the stock help?

Umkomaas

Sadly I can’t get evidence of transferring the stock as the system does not go back that far but will a witness statement from the current manager who received the stock help?

Perfectly good evidence. 

Coupon-mad

Is this in the area of Cavendish Retail park where restaurants back onto it and can load/unload? 

If so, one of the restaurant owners has some evidence of that right to load (a letter, I think) and I'm pretty sure we have some photos held by @ParkingMad