Shell Energy Smart Meter

adam250

wild666 said:

adam250 said:

Looking for some advice on what to do with a disagreement i got into with Shell regarding smart meters. In February i phoned them up saying i wasn't sure the readings on my IHD were accurate as they differed from the meters in the box. They said they would send an engineer out to have a look. The engineer came and replaced the meters and IHD. However, the IHD was not working but he said it can take up to 48 hours 

I called them back up after 2 days as this was still not working! I was told i need to wait 14 days before they can investigate which i wasn't happy about but accepted it. 14 days pass and still nothing on the IHD so i got in contact again where they now say its a known problem within the industry and there is nothing they can do until after 28 days now! i express my disappointment and frustration about this and the fact prices are due to rise soon as i have no way of now seeing where i can save money. i asked for £50 compensation which they grant to my amazement!

I still wanted to let them know how much anxiety this has caused me. They said they had exhausted all options of troubleshooting which i was quite surprised about as they never even attempted another meter/IHD!!! They told me i can use to app to see how much I'm spending which is useless for 2 reasons. Firstly the app is a piece of S**t that doesn't display data half the time and two it doesn't tell you on the fly what is having a high energy impact rendering a smart meter IMHO completely useless.

Also i want to know why they would install equipment that they know is faulty and has this issue where the meter and IHD don't communicate?

To make matters even worse since the 1st April the app is saying "Electricity and gas usage failed to load" I'm not conspiracy theorist but all seems far to convenient to me!!!

There latest response was to send a letter of deadlock to take to the onbudman for any further action. A letter which i had to chase 3 time i hasten to add!!!

Any advice appreciated

If you want to know your daily usage then take daily readings from the meter, if you want to know the total price of the energy used then just take the last days total from the present reading and it will give you the kWh's used, not the exact usage that the smart meters give, but over a period of time it will work out to within less than one kWh. Add the SC plus the price of the number of kWh's together i.e. 48.5p and 4 * 28.5p, as an example,  this would give the price, in my example of £1.62.5p, gas will be multiply by 11.3 to give the kWh's then multiply by the price per kWh and add the SC.

Yeah I’m not being funny but I ain’t doing that every day it’s ridiculous. Literally defeats the whole object of having a smart meter!

adam250

dms1944 said:

I had a Shell Energy smart meter installed almost a year ago.  The IHD has never worked.  I have spoken to Shell Energy a number of times and said I will go to the Regulator.  Their response was (a) the Regulator knows their IHD units don't work at all (b) the problem is the software in the IHD supplied by Chameleon Technology - this is not fit for purpose and they are waiting for the software to be amended.  12 months on the IHD is still not working.

My guess is they tried to persuade me not to report the problem to the Regulator so the problem doesn't get highlighted as 'acute' and is simply a rare occurrence.  

So they have been knowingly installing units that don’t work for at least a year? Wow. How convenient when now we have an energy crisis! I’m definitely going to Offgem about it.

We need Martin to get on the case and start a campaign about it. How can they get away with knowingly supplying faulty equipment?

Gerry1

dms1944 said:

wild666 said:

adam250 said:

Looking for some advice on what to do with a disagreement i got into with Shell regarding smart meters. In February i phoned them up saying i wasn't sure the readings on my IHD were accurate as they differed from the meters in the box. They said they would send an engineer out to have a look. The engineer came and replaced the meters and IHD. However, the IHD was not working but he said it can take up to 48 hours 

I called them back up after 2 days as this was still not working! I was told i need to wait 14 days before they can investigate which i wasn't happy about but accepted it. 14 days pass and still nothing on the IHD so i got in contact again where they now say its a known problem within the industry and there is nothing they can do until after 28 days now! i express my disappointment and frustration about this and the fact prices are due to rise soon as i have no way of now seeing where i can save money. i asked for £50 compensation which they grant to my amazement!

I still wanted to let them know how much anxiety this has caused me. They said they had exhausted all options of troubleshooting which i was quite surprised about as they never even attempted another meter/IHD!!! They told me i can use to app to see how much I'm spending which is useless for 2 reasons. Firstly the app is a piece of S**t that doesn't display data half the time and two it doesn't tell you on the fly what is having a high energy impact rendering a smart meter IMHO completely useless.

Also i want to know why they would install equipment that they know is faulty and has this issue where the meter and IHD don't communicate?

To make matters even worse since the 1st April the app is saying "Electricity and gas usage failed to load" I'm not conspiracy theorist but all seems far to convenient to me!!!

There latest response was to send a letter of deadlock to take to the onbudman for any further action. A letter which i had to chase 3 time i hasten to add!!!

Any advice appreciated

If you want to know your daily usage then take daily readings from the meter, if you want to know the total price of the energy used then just take the last days total from the present reading and it will give you the kWh's used, not the exact usage that the smart meters give, but over a period of time it will work out to within less than one kWh. Add the SC plus the price of the number of kWh's together i.e. 48.5p and 4 * 28.5p, as an example,  this would give the price, in my example of £1.62.5p, gas will be multiply by 11.3 to give the kWh's then multiply by the price per kWh and add the SC.

In addition my smart meter main unit is so installed it is impossible to read the tiny LCD numerals to check where my energy consumption is.

Phone taking a video taped to a broomstick?

TheInfamousGrouse

Apologies for the re-necro of this thread but at time of writing it is literally a Googlewhack for the phrase "gas usage failed to load" and I felt the need for a mini-vent.

I am also a recent recipient of some Shell Energy smart meters, and have had various issues ranging from the gas standing charge not appearing on the IHD to temporary network outages through to data failing to upload and display on the official app (which is where I got the phrase I searched for).

Shell Energy have told me that the standing charge issue is network-wide and related to the IHD firmware, and to be fair this does seem to mesh with comments I've seen on Twitter and in other forums. But anecdotes in threads like this one do make me worry that there's more going on than a few teething troubles. I would hate to think that my energy provider is shining me on just to avoid proper investigation.

As for the advice -- both from suppliers and other users -- to take regular manual readings, I can only echo what a couple of people have already said here and assume that all those offering such advice have their meters in an easily accessible position. My gas meter is in a dark cupboard under the stairs, and reading the old analogue meter was as simple as opening the door slightly, shining a torch through the gap and reading the dials. With the smart meter I have to remove everything from in front of the door, open it the whole way, lie on the floor, stretch in and push one of the buttons, squint to read the tiny LCD numbers and then hope I can remember it or write it down before the display turns itself off again. Or a big spider runs up my arm. I bloody hate spiders.

Then to add insult, I can't even submit the reading through the app but have to use webchat or make a phone call.

I'm still reasonably spry for a middle-aged chubby bloke (and if I'm being honest I probably need the exercise) but I'm not getting any younger and avoiding these sorts of contortions was part of the very reason smart meters were sold as beneficial in the first place. My in-laws are both in their late 70s and would not stand a chance of being able to do a manual reading on my gas meter without risking hospitalisation. It's ridiculous to ask customers to go through this just because the technology isn't working properly and the Heath Robinson design means there are multiple possible failure points. At the very least they should have put a display on the hub where both gas and electricity readings could have been taken from the same screen (although I've seen photographs of some installations where the hub is near the ceiling, so that would by no means be a panacea).

Overall I'm pretty disappointed in the performance and experience so far. I seem to be seeing very few of the promised benefits and a lot of hassle.

On a more positive note, thanks to everyone here and elsewhere who suggested the Bright app. After some initial nervousness around giving Hildebrand access to my data, I've signed up and got it all working and it proves that most of my issues are caused by Shell Energy not receiving and/or processing the data correctly from the DCC network rather than the meters themselves. I'm looking at the Shell Energy app showing "Gas usage failed to load" for Monday 18th and a full screen of half-hourly data on the Bright app for the same day.

Now if only I could find a way of pulling raw EXPORT data via an app or API so I don't have to go full Indiana Jones every time I have to take a manual gas reading... 🔦🕷😲

[Deleted User]

In defence of all energy suppliers (and before anybody asks, I have never worked in the energy industry) there are very few levers that a supplier can pull when things go wrong. Rather than go for a single smart meter (similar to the French Linky), the Government has allowed suppliers and manufacturers just to get on with it. Meter and IHD/CAD manufacturers are responsible for getting their meters and devices DCC certified, and they produce; test on the network and certify all firmware updates. The DCC manages the network and it has sole responsibility for all the smart meter communications hubs. If, for example, a supplier believes that a remote communications hub reset would solve a HAN/IHD problem then it has to send a request to the DCC which then takes action.

The only things that an individual supplier can do is to monitor an installation, and ask others to put things right when things go wrong. For example, it took Kaifa over 7 months to build, test and deploy a meter firmware update to reinstate 30 minute usage data files which went missing on one of their meters. My understanding is that the Jury is still out as to whether this was a Kaifa issue or the unintended consequences of a DCC network upgrade.

It is hard to see how the EOS could penalise a supplier for something that is outwith its control. If it was a billing issue as a result of a supplier Adapter software issue (the secure software that suppliers use to talk to the DCC network) then this sits firmly in the supplier’s Court.

colmel16

In shells defence i have been with them for 5 years and get all the gas and electric i want. i was switched to them after my supplier failed and the smart meter from shell worked fine as did the ihd, recently the ihd stopped providing gas readings so was bannished to the useless gadgets drawer and i now get accurate daily readings from their website (always a day late) which i find gives me all the info i need (cost, kwh, co2. history) for me to control my usage,

adam250

What i don't understand is how the meter can send that usage data to Shell but it can't send it to the IHD less than a meter away from it!!  Ridiculous

[Deleted User]

adam250 said:

What i don't understand is how the meter can send that usage data to Shell but it can't send it to the IHD less than a meter away from it!!  Ridiculous

The meters send absolutely nothing. To be pedantic, your supplier pulls data from and sends messages to your meters via the DCC wide-area network. To do this, your supplier has to develop or lease what the industry calls an Adapter: secure software if you like that the supplier uses to connect to the DCC network. Your comms hub establishes a separate network called a home area network (HAN) which the IHD uses to connect to your system.

So under this grand scheme, what is your supplier actually responsible for: the answer is nothing. The DCC manages the network and it is solely responsible for all communications hubs as they contain in built security. Each individual meter or device manufacturer is responsible for its own devices. They design them; build them and get DCC certification. Once an asset is deployed, the manufacturers develop and network test firmware updates for their meters and devices. Once firmware is approved for deployment, individual suppliers will use their Adapter to push the firmware updates to the meters under their control. 

 Most countries have gone down a different track. France. for example has certificated a single smart meter design - called LINKY - which a number of approved manufacturers are allowed to build. They have also gone for powerline technology to provide the link between consumers and their suppliers. In our usual World-beating way we have gone for a solution where the Government has left the smart metering solution to others. As a result, we have a system which is much more expensive than it needed to be with a level of complexity not seen in comparable smart metering systems.

adam250

[Deleted User] said:

adam250 said:

What i don't understand is how the meter can send that usage data to Shell but it can't send it to the IHD less than a meter away from it!!  Ridiculous

The meters send absolutely nothing. To be pedantic, your supplier pulls data from and sends messages to your meters via the DCC wide-area network. To do this, your supplier has to develop or lease what the industry calls an Adapter: secure software if you like that the supplier uses to connect to the DCC network. Your comms hub establishes a separate network called a home area network (HAN) which the IHD uses to connect to your system.

So under this grand scheme, what is your supplier actually responsible for: the answer is nothing. The DCC manages the network and it is solely responsible for all communications hubs as they contain in built security. Each individual meter or device manufacturer is responsible for its own devices. They design them; build them and get DCC certification. Once an asset is deployed, the manufacturers develop and network test firmware updates for their meters and devices. Once firmware is approved for deployment, individual suppliers will use their Adapter to push the firmware updates to the meters under their control. 

 Most countries have gone down a different track. France. for example has certificated a single smart meter design - called LINKY - which a number of approved manufacturers are allowed to build. They have also gone for powerline technology to provide the link between consumers and their suppliers. In our usual World-beating way we have gone for a solution where the Government has left the smart metering solution to others. As a result, we have a system which is much more expensive than it needed to be with a level of complexity not seen in comparable smart metering systems.

So.........Why can't the IHD give live data then?

QrizB

adam250 said:

[Deleted User] said:

adam250 said:

What i don't understand is how the meter can send that usage data to Shell but it can't send it to the IHD less than a meter away from it!!  Ridiculous

The meters send absolutely nothing. To be pedantic, your supplier pulls data from and sends messages to your meters via the DCC wide-area network. To do this, your supplier has to develop or lease what the industry calls an Adapter: secure software if you like that the supplier uses to connect to the DCC network. Your comms hub establishes a separate network called a home area network (HAN) which the IHD uses to connect to your system..

So.........Why can't the IHD give live data then?

As a guess, it hasn't been correctly registered on the HAN.