Property Trust Will / Tenants in Common

confused2022

Hello,

My husband passed away just 3 months ago (8 January 2022 therefore an excepted estate), leaving me as the life tenant and when I pass our two children (both in their forties) will inherit 45% each with the remaining 10% to be divided between our grandchildren (currently 2 of them) upon attaining the ages of 21.

The STEP practitioners who drafted the will are saying that if we don't apply to the land registry we are not carrying out the terms of the will; they have quoted to do it (amid warnings that if we do it and get it wrong it can lead to dire consequences) and probate ( will only do the two together) for the price of £1,650+VAT + disbursements totalling 2,300 - 2,400 so this sounds a lot compared to DIY but does it sound a fair amount if we do decide to instruct them?

Does having a Trust cause problems for Probate - I have read several times that having a trust means that a legally qualified person should apply for Probate rather than DIY, but could that be referring to more complicated Trusts? No IHT involved and estate very simple (apart from the Trust), Bank and savings account were in joint names, no stocks or shares and although the house has not been valued yet it is probably around £275K.

I have had an on-line quote from another STEP practioner who states that regarding the Land Registry strictly speaking we don't need to do anything as the Will has created the Trust but as a protective measure their advice would be:

      Remove late husbands name from the Deeds

      Add a Form B restriction

      Create an Equitable Assent Deed

for which they have quoted £470 + VAT; They also quoted £1250 inclusive for Probate for them to do all the paperwork needed to apply for probate but the grant would be in my name and I would call in the assets etc. ( which, from what I can gather is most of the work anyway).

Both children and I are Executors and we want to make sure everything is done properly, not only legally-wise but also so that we don't cause problems down the line when it is time for them to inherit.

Getting more confused every day. Any advice most welcome.

Thank you to RAS for your response to my first post and advising me to start a new Post - as you may well gather, all new to me!

doodling

Hi,

My first question is who are the "STEP practitioners" you mention - are they actually solicitors or are they something else?  Their behaviour suggests that they are something else.

A trust of this nature won't cause any problems for probate and the involvement of legal professional is not essential.

In theory you can get away with doing nothing with respect to the house and that often works well if the same executor executes both wills and there is no risk of the remaining owner selling the house and disappearing with the cash.

The three steps proposed by the second practitioner appear reasonable:

The first step can be done relatively easily by filling in the relevant land registry forms and posting them with a death certificate to the land registry.  I can't remember of probate is actually required for this step.  Doing this will end up with you becoming the sole legal owner of the house (but not the sole beneficial owner).

The second step is another form to the land registry where you basically place a restriction on the title preventing you as sole legal owner from selling it and running off with all the money.  This protects the children / grandchildren and flags up to anyone else looking at the title that if it is sold then someone else as well as yourself needs to be involved.

I'm not sure what the third step is ("Equitable Assent Deed"), my guess is that this is would be a deed detailing the ownership of the house (i.e. 22.5% to child one, 22.5% to child two, 5% to "the grandchildren" and 50% to you).  This makes the ownership clear for the future.  I could be wrong on this though.

None of the above are particularly complicated things to do but £500ish looks like a fair price - assuming that I wasn't desperately hard up I'd take it at that price.

The probate application is pretty easy if inheritance tax is not involved.  Take a look at the forms and associated guidance (they're all readily available online) and see whether it looks like something you could tackle.

confused2022

Doodling - thank you so much for your useful response; further to your question, STEP is an acronym for Society of Trust and Estate practitioners who may be Solicitors, Lawyers, Bankers etc. who have undertaken extra training and exams and they are regulated.  The second more reasonable quote, especially as it was not a fixed fee for both Land Registry and Probate together, was also on-line from a STEP member albeit a different company from the one who wrote the will (and they were a mixture of professions). With regards to the Deed of Assent I have copied and pasted what I found:

"Where a person inherits a property from a deceased's estate the property is transferred to him via a Deed of Assent by the executor or personal representative of the deceased. Effectively, the personal representative is assenting to the transfer of the property. An Assent would not be appropriate if the person inheriting the property would be making a financial contribution towards it, as where the property was left to him and another, and the money was being used to purchase the other's share. In this case a Transfer Deed would be used instead."

Again, my thanks, I feel a little less confused now and it has given me something tangible to work on.

doodling

Hi,

I do know who STEP are, I was questionning whether the organisation that gave you the higher price had your interests at heart - the wording of your post suggested that they might view their own interests slightly higher than yours.

With respect to the deed of assent, I don't think the text you quote answers the whole question in this case - what would you be transferring to who?

confused2022

Thank you Doodling - I agree with what you say and it's similar to the thoughts we had, which is why I got a second quote.

I think I shall ask for more information regarding the deed of assent to be sure what it is about.

Life, or rather, death is so complicated.

Regards

getmore4less

This should be fairly straightforward.

If you were a joint owner(TIC) then you keep your share the other share is in the trust most probably an IPDI trust.

Who are the remainder men of that share and distribution as setout  by his will 

Your share is subject to your will distribution at the time you die.

Has any of the beneficiary predeceasing you been covered

What about more grandchildren.

You don't need probate to deal with the property but might for other assets.

Best for you to add one of the executor/trustees to the legal title while you are alive and that would mean the property would not need probate for your estate either.

confused2022

Thank you getmore4less

The remainder men are our two children (45% each) and grandchildren (10% between however many there may be come the time) - if that actually answers your question.

The Will was termed a Bloodline Will and written very much in 'legalese' and covers beneficiaries pre-deceasing but not in any such words as I could quote here; we had the house ownership altered from joint tenants to tenants in common to facilitate the terms of the Will.

It would be good not to need probate, but could you explain why please; everything I have read indicates tenants in common need probate apart from a couple of times it being said that theoretically nothing needs to be done, but I don't understand how that can be either.

Sorry to be so vague, but just when I think I am beginning to understand I manage to become even more confused.