Sewage under kitchen floor

ambioni

Hi all- looking for some advice. Been in current house for 7 years, no major problems before. Detected a faint damp, sewagey smell in kitchen on and off for past two weeks and had a plumber out to inspect and fix today. Long story short is that the waste pipe (shower, basin and toilet water) from upstairs en-suite had never been properly installed, even though en-suite is 25 yrs old, and one end of it had collapsed under the downstairs kitchen floor a few weeks/months ago, so all waste had just been spilling out under the house, contaminating an area approx 9x5m at least. Plumber fixed pipework and drain guy ensured drains also clear. They recommended professional clean up of "stuff" under the house and drain man quoted £4000 for this including 3 man team to come out, lift some floorboards, sanitise, hoover up waste, dispose of and do full inspection of drains with camera. Seems like huge amount to charge, what do people here think? Not yet been to Rentokil or others for quote yet. Insurance already indicated that it's not covered as it's not "accidental damage" but rather "wear and tear"

Bendy_House

Sadly 25 years is a hell of a long time, so even if it can be clearly demonstrated that this was a plumbing 'fault' and NOT wear and tear, it still might not be covered - but perhaps worth investigating via Legal Protection, along with a statement from the plumber as to the 'cause', ideally with evidence?

And the 'cause' SHOULD be easy to ID, and determine whether it's W&T or 'installation error'; my mil's new bungalow had a leak inside the sink unit last week. It's 14 years old, but I could determine the 'cause' very simply; TWO pipes in the waste assembly - which needed to be cut to suit on installation - were cut too short and barely made  contact, with the rubber seals sitting on their very ends. The slightest movement due to expansion and contraction, or being biffed by putting things in the cupboard, could make them pop out - as they did. The O rings were also mangled, almost certainly from the pipes being repeatedly pushed back in and their collars tightened down excessively, but the ultimate CAUSE was easy to demonstrate. 

So, perhaps worth some pressure on the insurance?

Failing that, tho', if having to pay for this myself, I have to say that I'd be inclined to allow the waste and sludge to simply dry out naturally, as it almost certainly will. Perhaps judicious use of bleach and odour killers meanwhile...

It ain't 'toilet' waste after all

Bendy_House

Argh! It WAS toilet water too?!

Can the plumber still evidence the cause, or is it too late?

Is it 'just' dirty water - no, er, solids? (Apart from, I guess, the 'scum' you'd always get from waste water).

You say the smell was not too bad - 'faint' - so could you cope with this for a couple of weeks to see how it goes? 

Good chance it'll slowly and steadily dissipate, and very likely disappear totally. Even if it doesn't fully, it'll be a lot more pleasant to clear up a semi-crusty scum then, than a liquid slurry right now.

£4k seems a lot...

(Mind you, Rentokill will likely be more...)

Section62

Bendy_House said:

Argh! It WAS toilet water too?!

Yes, makes it a big job.

Bendy_House said:

£4k seems a lot...

(Mind you, Rentokill will likely be more...)

A lot of money, and I think it is difficult to assess what a fair price is for this kind of job.

I guess one way of doing that is asking how much any of us would want to be paid for spending a day crawling around in someone else's "stuff" accumulated and partially decomposed over many years... and whether we could name two friends who'd agree to help doing it for the same amount of money. Oh, also bearing in mind that "stuff" almost always isn't just bodily waste, there's a lot of other "stuff" which gets flushed.

I wouldn't do it for less than £1000.  So after adding employer's costs, taxes and profit, £4k for a 3-person job doesn't seem that unfair to me.  I'm also fairly sure Rentokill would want to charge more.

casper_gutman

If the question is whether it's wear and tear or poor workmanship at the time of installation, then does the answer matter?

Surely neither of those issues is usually covered by insurance: the first is "just one of those things" and the second is recoverable from the plumber who did the work, at least in principle - but not in practice in this case, given the long time since the work.

Bendy_House

casper_gutman said:

If the question is whether it's wear and tear or poor workmanship at the time of installation, then does the answer matter?

Surely neither of those issues is usually covered by insurance: the first is "just one of those things" and the second is recoverable from the plumber who did the work, at least in principle - but not in practice in this case, given the long time since the work.

Quite possibly, I don't know.

The original tradesperson's work will have been covered  by the usual statutory - or written - guarantee. 25 years on, who knows!

I'm trying to compare it with an issue like an unanticipated burst water pipe - that would surely be covered by household insurance? So why not this?

itsanne

Re the "stuff" under the floor - we had something similar happen with a different cause. Plumber suggested it would be a huge job to clear it, but if left it would naturally disintegrate on its own. Cue much disgust at the thought, but wrecking a tiled floor wasn't appealing either. We left it and stuck Airwick type things all over the place to see what would happen. It took several weeks for there to be no smell whatsoever, but visitors assured me I hadn't become nose-blind when the smell went away. There has been no odour in the recent warm spell.

Rosa_Damascena

itsanne said:

Re the "stuff" under the floor - we had something similar happen with a different cause. Plumber suggested it would be a huge job to clear it, but if left it would naturally disintegrate on its own. Cue much disgust at the thought, but wrecking a tiled floor wasn't appealing either. We left it and stuck Airwick type things all over the place to see what would happen. It took several weeks for there to be no smell whatsoever, but visitors assured me I hadn't become nose-blind when the smell went away. There has been no odour in the recent warm spell.

That is highly reassuring!!

Murmansk

A few years ago I had a drain problem which resulted in a two inch deep pool of sewage ending up covering quite a few square metres of the area as the side of my house. It was HIDEOUS and HORRIFIC but after a couple of weeks it had turned into the kind of compost you'd get in a nice sealed plastic bag from B&Q - I'd happily have picked it up, sniffed it and run it through my fingers - it was totally transformed!

So I hope something similar can happen under your house - after all it's not as though it's toxic chemicals like where they have to come and take all the soil away in an industrial site?

TadleyBaggie

Murmansk said:

A few years ago I had a drain problem which resulted in a two inch deep pool of sewage ending up covering quite a few square metres of the area as the side of my house. It was HIDEOUS and HORRIFIC but after a couple of weeks it had turned into the kind of compost you'd get in a nice sealed plastic bag from B&Q - I'd happily have picked it up, sniffed it and run it through my fingers - it was totally transformed!

Once went to a recording of a science radio show, the subject was bacteria. One expert claimed that if bacteria didn't exist, the whole earth would be covered with several metres deep of waste matter.

Section62

Murmansk said:

...I'd happily have picked it up, sniffed it and run it through my fingers - it was totally transformed!

That's Ok if you know all you are handling is your own "stuff" - the problem with other people's is not knowing what is in it.  Running someone's discarded needles and other sharps through your fingers isn't such a pleasant experience.  Hence the precautions (and additional cost) that sensible professionals will apply to dealing with a situation like the OP's.