Millions of people would struggle if the UK became completely cashless, report finds

Rob5342

libra10 said:

For everyday purchases, cash is king!  If the money isn't in your purse/wallet you can't spend it.

Cash is a great budgeting tool, and what happens when there is a problem with your bank card, or possibly lost it?  

Not everyone has the internet, many older people who have never used computers could lose their independence, having to rely on relatives or friends.

Cards have their uses, but they're not infallible.

If the money is in your account it's always down to you whether you spend it or not. You can get £x out in cash or put £x in your pot or spending account, in either case you can still get more cash out or put more money in your spending account. Cash isn't very good for budgeting as you have no idea where it went, on the other hand I can look in the app and see exactly where everything went. If there is a problem with your bank card and you've lost it then you can cancel it and not be any worse off, if you lose you cash you probably won't get it back.

Computers and the internet have been around so long now that that argument doesn't really hold any water now. An 80 year would have been 52 in 1994, a time when most office work was done on a computer.

Zanderman

Rob5342 said:

libra10 said:

For everyday purchases, cash is king!  If the money isn't in your purse/wallet you can't spend it.

Cash is a great budgeting tool, and what happens when there is a problem with your bank card, or possibly lost it?  

Not everyone has the internet, many older people who have never used computers could lose their independence, having to rely on relatives or friends.

Cards have their uses, but they're not infallible.

If the money is in your account it's always down to you whether you spend it or not. You can get £x out in cash or put £x in your pot or spending account, in either case you can still get more cash out or put more money in your spending account. Cash isn't very good for budgeting as you have no idea where it went, on the other hand I can look in the app and see exactly where everything went. If there is a problem with your bank card and you've lost it then you can cancel it and not be any worse off, if you lose you cash you probably won't get it back.

Computers and the internet have been around so long now that that argument doesn't really hold any water now. An 80 year would have been 52 in 1994, a time when most office work was done on a computer.

I've been trying not to get involved in this thread, but I'll rise to it and make a couple of points.

Firstly, I don't understand the need for the debate. Some people still use cash.  A report has been commissioned, and it's been researched, and it's pointed out that without cash a lot of people would be in trouble. Why are people arguing about this? It's fairly obviously the case, and the report authors will know far more about this than the rest of us.

In response to points about cash being rubbish for budgeting - it is rubbish if you're accustomed to having all your transactions listed, at your convenience, online on the web or an app.

But, for those of us brought up on cash, it is an excellent budgeting tool.  You have £40 in your wallet. You need it to last X days. You go shopping for groceries, you know you mustn't spend more than £Y because you need about £Z for the pub tomorrow and about £W for the cinema the next day. You spend within budget on groceries, and you remember (shock horror!) what you spent!  It's not rocket science to do this. People seem to have lost the ability to remember. Take phone numbers - I used to hold dozens of them in my head, for colleagues in offices all over the country. No need to now and I've forgotten my own mobile number multiple times.  Because I don't need to remember it. But if I did need to I would.  When just using cash I log it all in my head, like everyone (with any sense) used to before computers. Cash can, if you manage it properly, be a really good budgeting tool. You don't have to worry about whether the app shows an immediate debit or not (a regular worry in this forum). You ARE the app, and you know about the debit as it was done by you handing some money over. 

In response to points about everyone should be using technology now, the obvious riposte is why? Why should they if they're happy with their current set-up? Some people don't want to be 'cashless' on principle but are quite happy to use technology otherwise.  And some people - quite a lot - don't use technology much.  Saying that computers have bene in offices since the 90s is meaningless.  Lots of people don't, and never have, worked in offices. And even if they have, why should they be expected to embrace online financial stuff if they don't want to and they can use cash like they always have?  Whilst cash is still an option it is, er, still a completely valid option.

Which takes me back to my first point, why is the situation even being debated? Many people use online systems for financial transactions, many people don't.  What's so wrong with that?  

Personally I use a mixture of cards, online and cash. Today I spent £20 in cash buying something in a private transaction. I could have tried an online payment of some sort, but I didn't know, until I got there whether I was buying, so hadn't even discussed payment details with the seller, and he wasn't home to give me any info, it was his uncle who made the deal. Cash was absolutely perfect for this. No need for any exchange of info at all. Just cash. Easy peasy. Cash is always easy.

On the way back home I called at B&Q for a plant, spent £3.00 (it was reduced), flashed my B&Q card (20% off plants today) and paid the final bill of the grand sum of £2.40 by waving my contactless credit card.  I could have used my phone, but chose not to, the card was handier and smaller. 

I see that mix as perfectly acceptable. I've logged the £20 spend in my head and know I will have to replace that cash in my wallet in due course. I've not logged the £2.40 quite so securely in my head as it'll show up on the app. The app, in effect, just makes me lazy.

Edited to add:  just in case anyone replies suggesting I'm some sort of luddite by still using some cash, I've had a computer on my desk since 1985 (way before most people), spend most of my time online and have done for decades, run and design websites, run (successful) online businesses, take business payments via multiple systems including paypal, amazon pay, virtual card terminals on the web and mobile phone card readers, but still use cash - and even pay in and write cheques now and then. No problem here with new systems, just can't understand why some people reject (perfectly valid) continuing use of old ones.  

SevenOfNine

Daliah said:

SevenOfNine said:

I watch (mostly) the younger generation use their mobile phone banking apps to pay for everything, rarely (if ever) wanting a receipt (some establishments like Costa etc don't even bother to offer one), which means they've no clue whether bank statements are accurate, never check off receipts against spending.  

Who says they are never checking their bank statements against spending? You don't necessarily need a receipt for it. And getting a paper receipt doesn't mean people check their bank statements against them. Besides, many retailers offer e-receipts, so it's more environmentally conscious to use those. Personally, I rarely ever use Costa's (or other coffee shops) but I am pretty sure they are one of the ones that do e-receipts.

Good point, WHO does say "they are never checking their bank statements"? Can't see that I did. 

Interesting that people don't mind a 'ping' from their bank to confirm each transaction though, at least I think that's what is being said? 

libra10

I also use a combination of cash and cards, each have their uses.  

But in certain situations there are several advantages to using cash, as detailed above, and for the future it should be a viable option to pay for goods, rather being forced to use cards.

Security can be an issue using online banking, and people have had their accounts closed while they have been investigated.  Without cash you would be reliant on borrowing from others.  If you get mugged carrying cash, you lose the cash but it's a fixed amount.  Having your contactless card stolen could result in much more money being stolen before the thief is asked for the pin numbers. 

And most importantly, my local village chippy doesn't accept cards!

Which? Magazine have been campaigning for years to have freedom to pay cash, a worthwhile campaign!

https://campaigns.which.co.uk/freedom-to-pay/

Daliah

SevenOfNine said:

Daliah said:

SevenOfNine said:

I watch (mostly) the younger generation use their mobile phone banking apps to pay for everything, rarely (if ever) wanting a receipt (some establishments like Costa etc don't even bother to offer one), which means they've no clue whether bank statements are accurate, never check off receipts against spending.  

Who says they are never checking their bank statements against spending? You don't necessarily need a receipt for it. And getting a paper receipt doesn't mean people check their bank statements against them. Besides, many retailers offer e-receipts, so it's more environmentally conscious to use those. Personally, I rarely ever use Costa's (or other coffee shops) but I am pretty sure they are one of the ones that do e-receipts.

Good point, WHO does say "they are never checking their bank statements"? Can't see that I did. 

What you said is that they've no clue whether bank statements are accurate, never check off receipts against spending. I simply abbreviated this into checking their bank statements against spending, as this is all that matters and can quite easily be achieved without receipts if desired. 

SevenOfNine said:

Interesting that people don't mind a 'ping' from their bank to confirm each transaction though, at least I think that's what is being said? 

Yes, you can instantly get pinged by your card provider with what you have spent, so it takes but a second to confirm that the amount shown at the till is the amount debited to your account. No need to wait for a monthly statement, either, as you can follow your transactions in real time. In many apps it is also easy to tot up how much you spent at a given retailer, or even how much you spent on a category. You could, of course, do the same with a stack of receipts but it would take a lot more time and effort. 

Rob5342

Zanderman said:

Rob5342 said:

libra10 said:

For everyday purchases, cash is king!  If the money isn't in your purse/wallet you can't spend it.

Cash is a great budgeting tool, and what happens when there is a problem with your bank card, or possibly lost it?  

Not everyone has the internet, many older people who have never used computers could lose their independence, having to rely on relatives or friends.

Cards have their uses, but they're not infallible.

If the money is in your account it's always down to you whether you spend it or not. You can get £x out in cash or put £x in your pot or spending account, in either case you can still get more cash out or put more money in your spending account. Cash isn't very good for budgeting as you have no idea where it went, on the other hand I can look in the app and see exactly where everything went. If there is a problem with your bank card and you've lost it then you can cancel it and not be any worse off, if you lose you cash you probably won't get it back.

Computers and the internet have been around so long now that that argument doesn't really hold any water now. An 80 year would have been 52 in 1994, a time when most office work was done on a computer.

In response to points about everyone should be using technology now, the obvious riposte is why? Why should they if they're happy with their current set-up?

From a practical point of view you can only expect things to be catered for if there is sufficient overall demand. If somebody chooses to do something an unpopular way then they can't complain if they are unable to do it in certain situations, It's like choosing to use a 126 film camera, you can't complain and say you'll struggle because boots doesn't sell 126 film any more.

Zanderman

Rob5342 said:

Zanderman said:

Rob5342 said:

libra10 said:

For everyday purchases, cash is king!  If the money isn't in your purse/wallet you can't spend it.

Cash is a great budgeting tool, and what happens when there is a problem with your bank card, or possibly lost it?  

Not everyone has the internet, many older people who have never used computers could lose their independence, having to rely on relatives or friends.

Cards have their uses, but they're not infallible.

If the money is in your account it's always down to you whether you spend it or not. You can get £x out in cash or put £x in your pot or spending account, in either case you can still get more cash out or put more money in your spending account. Cash isn't very good for budgeting as you have no idea where it went, on the other hand I can look in the app and see exactly where everything went. If there is a problem with your bank card and you've lost it then you can cancel it and not be any worse off, if you lose you cash you probably won't get it back.

Computers and the internet have been around so long now that that argument doesn't really hold any water now. An 80 year would have been 52 in 1994, a time when most office work was done on a computer.

In response to points about everyone should be using technology now, the obvious riposte is why? Why should they if they're happy with their current set-up?

From a practical point of view you can only expect things to be catered for if there is sufficient overall demand. If somebody chooses to do something an unpopular way then they can't complain if they are unable to do it in certain situations, It's like choosing to use a 126 film camera, you can't complain and say you'll struggle because boots doesn't sell 126 film any more.

That's not a valid comparison at all. 

Firstly taking pictures is not a necessity of life. Being able to pay for things is.

Secondly 126 cameras became useless as the film cased to be made. Cash has not ceased to be made, and there is still so much demand that an official report says it shouldn't be withdrawn.

And, generally speaking, cash is not 'unpopular'.  That's the whole point - it is still in regular use by a very large number of people. Not by you perhaps but it is by lots of other people.  Which is the point of the report saying it's needed.  

ZeroSum

Auti said:

With money getting tighter and income static (but bills racing ahead) I prefer cash for day to day spending. I use internet banking for my bills and necessities but for day to day physical spending I use cash, that way I know what I have to spend so I can stay in budget and there is no unremembered impulse buys or impulse purchases. I cannot get into debt and my bills are covered. I know a few people of various ages who are doing this now.

Money is getting tighter & you're throwing away several ££ in cashback by choosing a more expensive way to spend? 

Sea_Shell

I think the upshot of all this is that many people still want CHOICE.   

Whether that is to use a phone, a card, on-line banking, a chip embedded in their hand or CASH.   

I don't use much cash, but I still would like the OPTION of being able to use cash, and I wouldn't like to see the back of it any time soon, personally.    Maybe in 20 years, things will have moved on even more, but I don't think we're there yet.


Maybe the whole financial system will have collapsed, and we'll have to go back to bartering for goods and services!!   



Oh and @Zanderman you are SO right there!!!
"Take phone numbers - I used to hold dozens of them in my head, for colleagues in offices all over the country. No need to now and I've forgotten my own mobile number multiple times.  Because I don't need to remember it."

Ergates

Zanderman said:

Rob5342 said:

Zanderman said:

Rob5342 said:

libra10 said:

For everyday purchases, cash is king!  If the money isn't in your purse/wallet you can't spend it.

Cash is a great budgeting tool, and what happens when there is a problem with your bank card, or possibly lost it?  

Not everyone has the internet, many older people who have never used computers could lose their independence, having to rely on relatives or friends.

Cards have their uses, but they're not infallible.

If the money is in your account it's always down to you whether you spend it or not. You can get £x out in cash or put £x in your pot or spending account, in either case you can still get more cash out or put more money in your spending account. Cash isn't very good for budgeting as you have no idea where it went, on the other hand I can look in the app and see exactly where everything went. If there is a problem with your bank card and you've lost it then you can cancel it and not be any worse off, if you lose you cash you probably won't get it back.

Computers and the internet have been around so long now that that argument doesn't really hold any water now. An 80 year would have been 52 in 1994, a time when most office work was done on a computer.

In response to points about everyone should be using technology now, the obvious riposte is why? Why should they if they're happy with their current set-up?

From a practical point of view you can only expect things to be catered for if there is sufficient overall demand. If somebody chooses to do something an unpopular way then they can't complain if they are unable to do it in certain situations, It's like choosing to use a 126 film camera, you can't complain and say you'll struggle because boots doesn't sell 126 film any more.

That's not a valid comparison at all. 

Firstly taking pictures is not a necessity of life. Being able to pay for things is.

Secondly 126 cameras became useless as the film cased to be made. Cash has not ceased to be made, and there is still so much demand that an official report says it shouldn't be withdrawn.

And, generally speaking, cash is not 'unpopular'.  That's the whole point - it is still in regular use by a very large number of people. Not by you perhaps but it is by lots of other people.  Which is the point of the report saying it's needed.  

But that *is* the point here.  We *are* as a society moving towards being cashless.  Cash is still used, but by fewer and fewer people each year in fewer and fewer scenarios (dropping by about 15% a year).  If we carry on in this direction then we will arrive at a point where it becomes unreasonable to expect most businesses to maintain the expensive facilities to handle it for the tiny fraction of people who want to use it.  There are already businesses that don't accept cash, as time goes on these will become more common. 

Therefore that *is* a totally valid comparison - as fewer people were using film cameras, fewer shops sold/developed film, making it hard for the small number of people who wanted to use film to continue to do so.   And what some of us are repeatedly pointing out - whilst paying for things is a necessity, using cash to do so *isn't*, it's just what you're used to.

The report (and this thread) isn't about people who *want* to use cash, it's talking about people who *have* to use cash - i.e. would not be able to survive in a cashless society and/or what changes would be needed to enable them to do so.   The solution for people who merely *want* to use cash is simple: tough.

Also, the report here isn't an "official" report it was conducted by "Royal Society of Arts (RSA) and cash machine network Link" (so, totally unbiased then...)