Millions of people would struggle if the UK became completely cashless, report finds

Alex9384

You don't have to use cash but simply having that option should never be taken away from us.

Sea_Shell

Daliah said:

Sea_Shell said:

What about for children?

Especially when they're at that in-between age of not yet having (allowed) a phone, or being eligible for a pre-paid debit card, but still wanting a bit of pocket money in their control rather than relying on (or asking) Mum or Dad to pay for everything.   

There are already plenty of options for card accounts for kids from very early ages. Before long, they will all expect that the thing on their wrist which tells them the time, lets them message with parents and friends, make an old-fashioned phonecall, reminds them of whatever they want to be reminded of, counts their steps, measures their temperature, pulse and blood pressure etc etc etc also lets them pay for a chocolate bar or whatever else they can afford to buy (these devices already exist for adults). The very last thing the kids will want is coins and notes which are difficult to carry with them, and which may be loaded with germs and viruses.

And how much will one of those "things on their wrist cost"?    What's the current going rate for an entry level smart watch, and don't they have to connect to a phone?  (I don't know how far this technology can go as a stand alone wrist device "before long")

How many thousands of families don't have anywhere near the disposable income to give their kids one of these devices each, or do you think the government of the day should give them out.  I don't think the latest contactless non-cash payment tech is going to be high up their priority list, as a benefit.

So that could leave people "excluded" from this new cashless utopia, driving an even bigger wedge between the haves and the have nots. 

So, nope, I can't see a true cashless society in my lifetime (and I'm 50)

SingleSue

I have to get money out to pay for a Chinese takeaway or some other small places in the town as they do not take card payments, apart from that, I do the vast majority of my transactions with a card or electronically.

Mum struggles though, she has only in the last 15 months got a debit card and she is not yet in the habit of using it, is scared of it and I have to take her up to the bank every 3 or 4 weeks for her to get money out as that is still her main form of payment. She doesn't have online banking (doesn't trust it), phone banking (doesn't trust it), doesn't like paying online (doesn't trust it) or paying over the phone (not a job for a woman even though she gets me to do it for her - yep I know).

Ironically, I am surrounded by cash every day in my working life (in an adult gaming centre -  a posh way of saying an arcade/casino for over 18's), count thousands of it every day several times a day as we are predominantly a cash based business but even we have a contactless card machine for customers to use for limited withdrawals (£10 a time and only up to three times). It was only during the pandemic though that we started to be paid direct into our banks, approx 6 months ago although we did receive furlough electronically, as it was just easier, cheaper, less hassle and much safer for them than to walk down a busy shopping thoroughfare with bags of cash...absolute bliss for us though, no more once a week trip to the bank to pay our wages in so that we could pay our bills!

Edit - Just to clarify,  although we were paid in cash it was all strictly legal and above board with all tax and NI contributions paid etc.

TimSynths

Daliah said:

I am nearly 70. Only cash I usually use these days is the same £1 coin for the Lidl shopping trolleys.

Me too- but mine is a fake £1 coin!

Sensory

Sea_Shell said:

Daliah said:

Sea_Shell said:

What about for children?

Especially when they're at that in-between age of not yet having (allowed) a phone, or being eligible for a pre-paid debit card, but still wanting a bit of pocket money in their control rather than relying on (or asking) Mum or Dad to pay for everything.   

There are already plenty of options for card accounts for kids from very early ages. Before long, they will all expect that the thing on their wrist which tells them the time, lets them message with parents and friends, make an old-fashioned phonecall, reminds them of whatever they want to be reminded of, counts their steps, measures their temperature, pulse and blood pressure etc etc etc also lets them pay for a chocolate bar or whatever else they can afford to buy (these devices already exist for adults). The very last thing the kids will want is coins and notes which are difficult to carry with them, and which may be loaded with germs and viruses.

And how much will one of those "things on their wrist cost"?    What's the current going rate for an entry level smart watch, and don't they have to connect to a phone?  (I don't know how far this technology can go as a stand alone wrist device "before long")

How many thousands of families don't have anywhere near the disposable income to give their kids one of these devices each, or do you think the government of the day should give them out.  I don't think the latest contactless non-cash payment tech is going to be high up their priority list, as a benefit.

So that could leave people "excluded" from this new cashless utopia, driving an even bigger wedge between the haves and the have nots. 

So, nope, I can't see a true cashless society in my lifetime (and I'm 50)

The UK is hardly representative of progressive early adoption. It's often just not in the commercial interests of competing big players to do so, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Contactless smart card technology for the general public was first used as early as 1996. In 1997, the reloadable (pre-paid) 'Octopus' card was launched in Hong Kong to collect fares for its mass transit system. The Octopus card quickly grew to be used for payment in many retail shops, including most convenience stores, supermarkets, and fast-food restaurants. Other common Octopus payment applications now include parking meters, car parks, petrol stations, vending machines, fee payment at public libraries and swimming pools, and more. The cards are also commonly used for non-payment purposes, such as school attendance and access control for office buildings and housing estates.

98% of people in Hong Kong aged 15 to 64 possess Octopus.
Octopus cards are available to children as young as 3 (three), for as little as ~5.00 GBP (includes ~1.50 GBP in credit).
'On-Loan' (non-personalised) cards are anonymous; no personal information, bank account, or credit card details are stored on the card and no identification is required for the purchase of these cards. If an owner loses a card, only the stored value and the deposit of the card are lost.

In 2006, the system was extended to Macau and Shenzhen.

During my time in Hong Kong (1991-2013), Octopus cards were by far the most convenient form of everyday small-value face-to-face payments since their introduction, and it was an extremely common sight to see people scanning their wallets/purses/handbags to quickly pay for goods. It actually took until 2020 for Octopus cards to be supported by Apple Pay (four years after Apply Pay was introduced there).

There are numerous and varied methods to top-up Octopus cards:

• Automatically by card when the stored value reaches (or drops below) 0.
• Octopus Wallet (app-based digital wallet, direct debit from bank accounts, also allows friend-to-friend payments).
• Cash - at train stations, customer service centres, and all authorised service providers (including supermarkets, convenience stores and other retail outlets). You can even pay for goods in cash and request for any change to be credited to your Octopus card. Spare change can be deposited via the Coin Collection Programme operated by the HK Monetary Authority (central banking institution).

Whilst hardly perfect and wasn't designed to replace cash, it could easily do so with minor adjustments.

The UK has providers like Hyperjar and GoHenry utilising standard payment facilities and networks (and Hyperjar is free), although they're registration-based and more geared towards budgeting and helping children as opposed to conveniently replacing everyday cash.

diystarter7

Reading through the new posts since I posted. If the UK was going cashless many will/are supporting that inc me who was against it pre covid.

About paying for the smaller items EG takeaways, corner shops, they will have to adapt and with app payments and non contact pay systems it could not be easier.

The above would remove a lot of the cash in hand work and people paying tax that never did or paid a lot less than they should have. This is only fair as those on the PAYE system have no choice but tax is taken. Reduce the spread of germs and
this could actually make a lot more people use benefits money on what they need to be spending it on, EG food, bills etc rather than spending an x amount of adult drinks, smoking, fast foods etc etc. Many will not like this but I don't like paying tax/PAYE, road tax, VAT, mortgage, etc but I have little choice in the matter if I want to keep our property and remain on the right side of the law.

Years ago I said they'd never bring in pay as drive road charges as they don't have the infrastructure etc and people will rise against it - just look at the massive charges re emissions and congestion charges in London and other cities. Where there is a will there is a way

A cashless society is the way forward and in turn will increase tax income for the government to run the country.

Yes, I know, the big boys that do not pay the taxes many feel they should, that is a different story but what we did not want is what Labour did to taxes EG some paying 90% plus where people. companies left the UK

Ergates

Sea_Shell said:

Daliah said:

Sea_Shell said:

What about for children?

Especially when they're at that in-between age of not yet having (allowed) a phone, or being eligible for a pre-paid debit card, but still wanting a bit of pocket money in their control rather than relying on (or asking) Mum or Dad to pay for everything.   

There are already plenty of options for card accounts for kids from very early ages. Before long, they will all expect that the thing on their wrist which tells them the time, lets them message with parents and friends, make an old-fashioned phonecall, reminds them of whatever they want to be reminded of, counts their steps, measures their temperature, pulse and blood pressure etc etc etc also lets them pay for a chocolate bar or whatever else they can afford to buy (these devices already exist for adults). The very last thing the kids will want is coins and notes which are difficult to carry with them, and which may be loaded with germs and viruses.

And how much will one of those "things on their wrist cost"?    What's the current going rate for an entry level smart watch, and don't they have to connect to a phone?  (I don't know how far this technology can go as a stand alone wrist device "before long")

How many thousands of families don't have anywhere near the disposable income to give their kids one of these devices each, or do you think the government of the day should give them out.  I don't think the latest contactless non-cash payment tech is going to be high up their priority list, as a benefit.

So that could leave people "excluded" from this new cashless utopia, driving an even bigger wedge between the haves and the have nots. 

So, nope, I can't see a true cashless society in my lifetime (and I'm 50)

Given you specifically asked about children "at that in-between age of not yet having (allowed) a phone, or being eligible for a pre-paid debit card", what exactly are you talking about people being "excluded" from?  Given pocket money to their children via a smart device?   I strongly suggest that this is an imaginary issue and, again, of all the reasons people have brought up for society going cashless, this is by far the weakest.   Especially given that children from 6 years and up can have prepaid cash cards (e.g. Go Henry - there are several alternatives and no reason there couldn't be more) which are cheap (or free) to run.

"Oh no, it'll be hard to give children under 6 years old pocket money, better call the whole thing off".   Seriously?  That's your objection?

Ergates

Alex9384 said:

You don't have to use cash but simply having that option should never be taken away from us.

Having that option comes at a cost.   Are *you* willing to bear that cost if the majority of people don't want it?  Or do you expect other people to pay for your choices?

badmemory

If everyone wants to pay by card now why is it that the quickest way to get out of Tescos is to use the one of only 2 checkouts (of usually about 10) that are card only?  Taking cash is only expensive if you are paying it into the bank whereas every payment taken by card costs money plus the cost of the machine to take that money.  Things are never that straightforward.

At the moment I have landed up paying a friends rent for him every month (locked himself out of both telephone & online banking).  He can get cash out of the ATM to pay me back & does now before I spend it.  But I now have to buy stuff with cash so I'm not getting any cash back on my CC & if I take it into the bank it costs me more in parking than I get in cashback.

Sea_Shell

Ergates said:

Sea_Shell said:

Daliah said:

Sea_Shell said:

What about for children?

Especially when they're at that in-between age of not yet having (allowed) a phone, or being eligible for a pre-paid debit card, but still wanting a bit of pocket money in their control rather than relying on (or asking) Mum or Dad to pay for everything.   

There are already plenty of options for card accounts for kids from very early ages. Before long, they will all expect that the thing on their wrist which tells them the time, lets them message with parents and friends, make an old-fashioned phonecall, reminds them of whatever they want to be reminded of, counts their steps, measures their temperature, pulse and blood pressure etc etc etc also lets them pay for a chocolate bar or whatever else they can afford to buy (these devices already exist for adults). The very last thing the kids will want is coins and notes which are difficult to carry with them, and which may be loaded with germs and viruses.

And how much will one of those "things on their wrist cost"?    What's the current going rate for an entry level smart watch, and don't they have to connect to a phone?  (I don't know how far this technology can go as a stand alone wrist device "before long")

How many thousands of families don't have anywhere near the disposable income to give their kids one of these devices each, or do you think the government of the day should give them out.  I don't think the latest contactless non-cash payment tech is going to be high up their priority list, as a benefit.

So that could leave people "excluded" from this new cashless utopia, driving an even bigger wedge between the haves and the have nots. 

So, nope, I can't see a true cashless society in my lifetime (and I'm 50)

Given you specifically asked about children "at that in-between age of not yet having (allowed) a phone, or being eligible for a pre-paid debit card", what exactly are you talking about people being "excluded" from?  Given pocket money to their children via a smart device?   I strongly suggest that this is an imaginary issue and, again, of all the reasons people have brought up for society going cashless, this is by far the weakest.   Especially given that children from 6 years and up can have prepaid cash cards (e.g. Go Henry - there are several alternatives and no reason there couldn't be more) which are cheap (or free) to run.

"Oh no, it'll be hard to give children under 6 years old pocket money, better call the whole thing off".   Seriously?  That's your objection?

I don't have an objection!!

Just pointing out some instances where being 100% cashless might not of worked.

But if it's possible for kids as young as 3 have the potential for prepaid card, then it's a non issue (potentially).

I still don't see it happening any time soon.