Travelling with no insurance?

Thrugelmir

Little different to the chances of your home being destroyed by fire. Premiums are low relative to the cover provided. Everyday some unfortunate soul suffers the consequences though. One day might be you. 

zagfles

Thrugelmir said:

Little different to the chances of your home being destroyed by fire. Premiums are low relative to the cover provided. Everyday some unfortunate soul suffers the consequences though. One day might be you. 

Yeah. But it almost certainly won't. That's the way some people look at it, as we've already discussed.

Voyager2002

The OP is about travel to Spain, and assumes that the person travelling has a valid GHIC so is covered in the same way as a local person would be. So I shall give an actual example from another EU country (France), something that happened over twenty years ago but could probably still happen today.

Relative was fit and active, aged about 60. In the course of his holiday he managed to fall off a chatea (!!) and landed on his head. He returned to his hotel but in the early hours of the morning he realised he was seriously unwell and needed help, and made it as far as the street where he passed out. Some young people out having fun found him, realised he was in a bad way and called the Fire Brigade (this was a small town with no ambulance) who took him to the local hospital. He was given emergency treatment and stabilised, later transferred to a larger town with intensive care facilities, and treated. So far as I know up to this point there had been no significant charges.

Money started being spent when the British embassy were informed and told the rest of the family, who then travelled to see him. And for whatever reason the decision was made to move him to the ICU in the main hospital near his home. The cost of the air ambulance needed for this was a life-changing amount (something similar to the cost of a house). Fortunately by this stage we had established that because of the particular credit card he had used to pay for the Channel crossing insurance was in place to pay for the air ambulance. I don't know whether his daughters claimed for the costs of going to see him in France, but this kind of cover would certainly be useful if family members could not easily pay for last-minute foreign travel.

Archergirl

Voyager2002 said:

The OP is about travel to Spain, and assumes that the person travelling has a valid GHIC so is covered in the same way as a local person would be. So I shall give an actual example from another EU country (France), something that happened over twenty years ago but could probably still happen today.

Relative was fit and active, aged about 60. In the course of his holiday he managed to fall off a chatea (!!) and landed on his head. He returned to his hotel but in the early hours of the morning he realised he was seriously unwell and needed help, and made it as far as the street where he passed out. Some young people out having fun found him, realised he was in a bad way and called the Fire Brigade (this was a small town with no ambulance) who took him to the local hospital. He was given emergency treatment and stabilised, later transferred to a larger town with intensive care facilities, and treated. So far as I know up to this point there had been no significant charges.

Money started being spent when the British embassy were informed and told the rest of the family, who then travelled to see him. And for whatever reason the decision was made to move him to the ICU in the main hospital near his home. The cost of the air ambulance needed for this was a life-changing amount (something similar to the cost of a house). Fortunately by this stage we had established that because of the particular credit card he had used to pay for the Channel crossing insurance was in place to pay for the air ambulance. I don't know whether his daughters claimed for the costs of going to see him in France, but this kind of cover would certainly be useful if family members could not easily pay for last-minute foreign travel.

Yes, my mum had a heart attack in France, the ins paid for my sister to travel to France, paid for her hotel while there and paid for mums body to be flown home, the undertaker said the coffin wasn't a cheap one either, he collected her from LGW all inc in the ins. I was in the USA at the time on holiday I changed a flight and got to France even though it took me 3 days....
People do not realise in some cases parents would have to sell the family home to get their child back from a holiday accident in a far flung place..........

zagfles

Voyager2002 said:

The OP is about travel to Spain, and assumes that the person travelling has a valid GHIC so is covered in the same way as a local person would be. So I shall give an actual example from another EU country (France), something that happened over twenty years ago but could probably still happen today.

Relative was fit and active, aged about 60. In the course of his holiday he managed to fall off a chatea (!!) and landed on his head. He returned to his hotel but in the early hours of the morning he realised he was seriously unwell and needed help, and made it as far as the street where he passed out. Some young people out having fun found him, realised he was in a bad way and called the Fire Brigade (this was a small town with no ambulance) who took him to the local hospital. He was given emergency treatment and stabilised, later transferred to a larger town with intensive care facilities, and treated. So far as I know up to this point there had been no significant charges.

Money started being spent when the British embassy were informed and told the rest of the family, who then travelled to see him. And for whatever reason the decision was made to move him to the ICU in the main hospital near his home. The cost of the air ambulance needed for this was a life-changing amount (something similar to the cost of a house). Fortunately by this stage we had established that because of the particular credit card he had used to pay for the Channel crossing insurance was in place to pay for the air ambulance. I don't know whether his daughters claimed for the costs of going to see him in France, but this kind of cover would certainly be useful if family members could not easily pay for last-minute foreign travel.

Presumably before deciding to use the air ambulance for repatriation they'd established who was paying (ie the insurance). Had they not paid, he'd have presumably recovered in the French hospital and paid whatever (if anything) a French person who suffered the same accident would have.  IIRC there are some costs for hospital in France.

As for relatives travelling to see him in France, they'd have probably spent a similar amount if he'd had the accident 300 miles away from home in the UK. My last few trips to EU countries have been cheaper than a train to London! And accomodation definitely was!

lea2012

I appreciate this is a rare incident but a work colleagues ex husband tragically died whilst in thailand.
He had no insurance and was travelling alone. He suffered a fall and died in hospital alone as their son couldn't get to him in time.
He had a bill of well over £10k and the thai authorities would not release his body until it was paid so his son had to organise a bank loan. They couldn't afford to bring him home either then so he was cremated there at a further cost. He had left his house to their son in his will but it had to be sold to pay for the hospital bills.
Sometimes it's not just the person travelling that is affected. Its those who they may leave behind! 

Pollycat

No matter how many horror stories there are, if someone doesn't want or feel the need for travel insurance, they won't buy it.
Trying to change their mind is pointless.

lisyloo

zagfles said:

lisyloo said:

zagfles said:

lisyloo said:

zagfles said:

Archergirl said:

Some people just don't care, hence all the 'Go fund me' pages They just expect other people to foot the bill................

Or they just have a different attitude to risk. It's as pointless to try to lecture them or sit in moral judgement as it is doing it to someone who smokes, or drinks/eats excessively. Everyone knows the risks, some are prepared to take them.

When you look at the typical cost of insurance and compare it to the horror stories everyone always trots out, it's obvious that the chances of the worst case scenarios happening to you are miniscule. Insurance companies can only pay the massive costs some people claim from the premiums of all those who don't - so do the sums.

Personally - I doubt I'd venture out of the GHIC area without medical insurance, whether it's worth it in the GHIC area is more debatable particularly for those with PEMCs.

I agree, people should be able to take risks if they want to (if it doesn’t hurt others), but it does cover more than medical.
for example it can cover cancellation due a hurricane, companies going bust etc.

yes sure, insurers have to make money and with average luck you’ll be out of pocket, but airlines, hotel going bust DO happen and so does volcanic ash etc.

ive only claimed once in my life and that was when easyJet cancelled a flight.

ive got no issue with people taking risks if they understand what they are.
im not convinced some people do.

Cancellation is just not a big deal, unless you book expensive packages or non refundable hotels/flights where you pay thousands up front. My last few holidays would have cost hardly anything had I cancelled the day before if I had no insurance (which I did). It's a very minor consideration for me. Like I said, book refundable if you're worried, as no insurance will cover cancellation for any reason. What's important to you might not be for the insurance company.

Very few package holidays are refundable.
It’s generally a total loss of you cancel within a certain time period e.g. 12 weeks.
many people book holidays worth 4 figures especially if it’s for a family.

I think you are different from most people/families - which is fine, but it’s not representative of your average family of 4 booking a package holiday.

I always book cancelable hotels in the uk but there is usually a time limit - sometimes 48 hours, sometimes it’s 2 weeks.
It’s almost never possible to certain types of holiday abroad in a cancellable fashion e.g. a cruise.

In the main I’d say the reasons most people would cancel e.g. death, serious illness, natural disaster would mostly coincide with insurance coverage,
Of course that might not be you but I’d say you are the outlier, which again is fine, but not representative of the average holiday making family who would not for various reasons be able to make cancellable arrangements.

if you disagree can you tell me where I can book a cancellable boat based diving trip? Or cruise?

Last couple of holidays we went on, the hotels were fully cancellable up to about 3 days before and after that or no-show they just charged the first night, so max loss was one night, about £60 or so, flights were Ryanair for about £50 return for 2 of us. So last minute cancellation would have cost us around £100, not sure the insurance excess would have covered that! Before that we went on a package, £300 for 2 of us. Losing that wouldn't have caused us to starve. Insurance was there, but as I said no big deal.

The other way to reduce the risk is to book late, the later you book the less chance of anything happening to cause cancellation. Plus it's usually a lot cheaper. Our last few holidays were booked less than a week in advance, mainly because we wanted to know the COVID situation, no point going somewhere and finding you can't do what you want to because of restrictions. Booking late applies to cruises too, we've got friends who go on cruises all the time, they book last minute for about half the usual price. Just before the pandemic they did a cruise round India/SE Asia for about £500 each, others who'd booked months in advance had paid well over £1000 each for the exact same cruise. I've done stuff like diving trips but on a turn up basis, or booked the night before. Day trips though, rather than a full holiday if that's what you meant.

But it's all a bit moot anyway - the main reason I (and probably most people by the sounds of it) have travel insurance is for medical, and you get cancellation and other stuff thrown in. It might be possible to get medical only but I don't think significantly cheaper, and my travel insurance policy is very good value for the amount of travelling I do anyway!

Your holidays are very different from mine and (more relevant) different to most other peoples.
I’ve just booked a diving trip for September,
I couldn’t wait as there were only 4 spaces left on a boat of 18 people for that trip which was timed for a specific wildlife event (tides etc.)
I would definitely have missed out if I’d waited.
there’s usually 18-26 spaces on a boat so you can’t usually get decent times of year at the last minute.
those kind of trips (and more relevantly) package deals are usually a total loss of you cancel.
some people spend 5 figures on their holidays (understand you don’t but it’s not about you).
yes we know you don’t need insurance if there’s little financial risk.
most people would consider a 4 figure or 5 figure sum something they don’t want to lose.
a 4 figure sum wouldn’t be that unusual for a 2 week holiday for a normal family.

you can’t actually go on a cruise without insurance.
I guess you could lie but you risk getting refused boarding if they checked.

as you say there are bigger issues to consider than 3-figure holiday costs.
I’d hate for a son/daughter to be in a Turkish jail for a teenage prank without access to legal help and translation.

my concern wouldn’t be people like you who understand the risk.
Its more the people who have no idea, but I think I was the first to say it’s almost impossible to change someone’s mind if they don’t want to listen,
the only think you can do is absolve your conscience as there’s a small chance they might consider what you’ve said.
if people don’t want to look at the evidence or dismiss it out of hand, there’s little you can do.

zagfles

I think we basically agree. You need to understand the risks and understand what the insurance covers. It's not just a case of being insured or not, it's a case of being appropriately insured. And understanding that there will always be some things that aren't covered.

For instance, look at the limits. The cancellation limit on my insurance is £5k, probably typical, but may not be enough for some.

Understand that you need to declare any pre-existing medical conditions. Understand what is covered and what isn't. For instance going skiing usually would need specific winter sports insurance, normal insurance wouldn't normally cover it. Same for other risky sports, jetskis, diving, riding a moped etc. Or understand you're taking a risk, as I have in the past.

Understand the alcohol policy. This is a big one. Some insurances won't cover you if "under the influence", ie is only really suitable for teetotallers. Some will cover you as long as your judgement is not severely impaired, or words to that effect. And some in between. But no insurance will cover you if you get drunk. Given the popularity of "all inclusive" holidays with unlimited free booze, this is something a lot of people need to watch out for!

A lot of the horror stories you read about are people who did have insurance, but got drunk, or didn't declare PEMCs, or did something not covered so the insurance refused to pay out.

twopenny

This person who doesn't want insurance, presumably a fraction of the cost of the holiday and less than the parking, isn't going to listen.

If they do they will pick the cheapest online - which may not cover them.

You need to check that what you are intending to do is covered. It's surprising whats in the details.

Same company, same destination they wouldn't cover me. It was what I'd stated I was traveling on. ie a dive boat but hapily I noted it was called online as a boutique cruiser.

A safari - not covered for riding in a jeep and Egypt not covered for camel riding.

But yes, ultimately it's if you are injured or fall ill. You want someone with you, you want to get home.

And most are surprised that British Embasseys abroad won't help with that.

Another surprise is that extra trips or activities you take 'provided by supplier' often aren't. I've seen some horror stories about not covered by insurance there.

Or a suppliers insurance mean you aren't covered for any activity or tour you pick up locally.