Court of Protection - A Salutory Lesson in What Happens When You DON'T Assign Power of Attorney

olgadapolga

I really don't see why you and your husband are devoting any time to this issue. It's NOT your problem. Your husband is not responsible for his father. The local authority can deal with it. You just need to be firm and keep repeating that you and your husband are not getting involved. 

molerat

The council are only badgering your OH because it saves them the inconvenience (and loads of paperwork) of having to do it themselves.  As above, stop stressing over "doing the right thing" and send a simple letter stating you are not doing it.

Sea_Shell

When you state "My husband wants the best for his Father despite the estrangement.", Do you mean he'd rather he be in private self-funded care, rather than local authority care?

Do you feel he's not currently receiving best care?

If FiL is in the best place for him and receiving the care he needs....then how it is funded is not your responsibility.

RAS

fallen121 said:

The reason I deleted the original posts in the previous threads was not because I was selfish and didn't want to help others but because the posts contained information which I was advised could have been used to identify us and used against us by my husband's SIL. Please understand we are in a very precarious position here. We're trying to do the right thing, whilst acknowledging that there is every chance we could be left seriously out of pocket.

I foresee a long stalemate situation not helped by my SIL's current disappearance.

I'm struggling to understand the relationships here. Who is "my husband's SIL." Your sister?? And why would she be worried?

Assuming your FIL is in England, then it is irrelevant what the Council say. The fact is that they can and do go to the Court of Protection, all the time. 

OK this one is a bit more difficult because SIL has burgered off with the keys and the information but that does not entitle them to shove your OH into the firing line. Not least as they appear to have been the ones who organised to freeze his assets?

You and OH need to stand back. FIL is being cared for, that's all that matters to you. 

No more video meetings, sounding out solicitors etc. Just tell the Council to sort it out.

Savvy_Sue

Unless and until the council show you the law which says they "cannot" apply to the CofP while there are living children, stand firm. I'm confident there is no such law.

Your DH might be as unreliable as his sister, then what? 

Cracked record time. "It is not possible for us to do this. We are not going to do this. Make other arrangements."

Spendless

Savvy_Sue said:

Unless and until the council show you the law which says they "cannot" apply to the CofP while there are living children, stand firm. I'm confident there is no such law.

Your DH might be as unreliable as his sister, then what? 

Cracked record time. "It is not possible for us to do this. We are not going to do this. Make other arrangements."

I was going to say exact same thing. Ask the council to show you the law that say they 'cannot' I very much suspect that they really mean 'they don't want to' 

Savvy_Sue

Don't want to, don't normally, have experience of being challenged if they do ... All sorts of reasons, but no law against it!

Keep_pedalling

To be fair to the council it sounds as though the OPs father has a substantial estate, and normally where there are living children who potentially will eventually inherit what is left after care costs it is unusual for them not to get a grip of the finances rather than leave it until father dies then start complaining where the money has gone. 

Someone is going to have to deal with the estate on his death ant that definitely won’t be the LA.

Savvy_Sue

Keep_pedalling said:

To be fair to the council it sounds as though the OPs father has a substantial estate, and normally where there are living children who potentially will eventually inherit what is left after care costs it is unusual for them not to get a grip of the finances rather than leave it until father dies then start complaining where the money has gone. 

Someone is going to have to deal with the estate on his death ant that definitely won’t be the LA.

True, but nor need it be the OP's DH! 

fallen121

Keep_pedalling said:

To be fair to the council it sounds as though the OPs father has a substantial estate, and normally where there are living children who potentially will eventually inherit what is left after care costs it is unusual for them not to get a grip of the finances rather than leave it until father dies then start complaining where the money has gone. 

Someone is going to have to deal with the estate on his death ant that definitely won’t be the LA.

Well my DH is not going to "potentially inherit" anything (estranged son excluded from inheritance) so zero motivation to "get a grip of the finances", particularly as the minute my FIL dies, you can bet your bottom dollar that my SIL will turn up waving the will.

I suppose you could ask the same of my SIL. WHY isn't she trying to get these financial affairs sorted out? Story follows.

The fact is, having been AWOL for best part of 5 years, when neighbours contacted her to say they were concerned that my FIL had dementia (had lived alone since death of my MIL), SIL and her partner moved house to be closer to her Dad and for the next few weeks were all over him like a rash. They were forever going out to visit the Bank to "sort out his money" and going out for lunch where he "insisted on paying" according to her statements in video calls to the Council. Also complained to neighbours about the cost of visiting him and the need to recover "expenses".

However after several weeks of weekly visits SIL then then disappeared for several weeks, leaving neighbours to pick up the slack. Neighbours going in to check on my FIL decided to try and see if there were any more relatives, found my DH's details in an address book. Weren't even aware he had a son. No pictures, never mentioned. Called my DH and made him aware they were referring FIL to Social Services. The very next day FIL put a can of beans in the microwave and set the kitchen on fire. Came round to neighbours very distressed. Quite obvious he could no longer take care of himself. Social Services contacted, he was put into a home the same day and has remained there ever since.

SIL then reappeared. Apparently had been "on holiday". Very annoyed he was in a home. Apparently she and her partner had plans to take care of him in his own home as "that is what he wanted and had expressed a preference for". Refused to believe he had dementia, claimed he was "just absent minded". Also claimed that he was unhappy in the care home and had told her he wanted to come home and be with her was suicidal that he couldn't. This seems unlikely given he has joined the choir, helps to organise social events in the home and doesn't even remember his current property, telling anyone who will listen about his job in London and his home there (hasn't lived in London for over 30 years). 

At the point FIL was taken into the home, his Bank accounts were frozen by the Council, as in the home FIL had been telling tales of people turning up to take him to the Bank to "get his money" and although he was uncertain as to who these people were who were taking him to the Bank, quite obvious that some sort of financial abuse going on. SIL went ape when she discovered this. She blamed one of the neighbours for freezing the Bank accounts, phoned her saying they had tried to use my FIL's debit card to buy things he needed (on Amazon?) and that all this nonsense was totally unnecessary. Claimed in a video call with the Council that she was going to get an independent doctor to challenge his incapacity assessment (never happened) and contact a solicitor to obtain "retrospective Power of Attorney" so she could "manage his financial affairs". Most put out when told that no such thing as "retrospective Power of Attorney" and that FIL no longer had capacity to grant anything. Promised to supply Bank statements to the Council (admitted that she had taken all financial documents into her possession). Never supplied Bank statements. Several visits to FIL's house where observed loading bulky items into car. Promptly disappeared again. Hasn't responded to phone calls or emails from the Council and hasn't visited my FIL for nearly 5 months.

The fact is, she has zero interest in my FIL now. The Bank accounts are closed to her. She won't want my DH being involved (and in fact even phoned the care home demanding that my DH not be allowed to be informed about anything that was happening unaware that in her absence he had given authority for the care home transfer and has been listed as next of kin) and certainly won't supply any financial information to enable him to do CoP. She is apparently the beneficiary of the will so from her perspective, the best thing is to sit tight and wait for him to die, whereupon she can settle the estate and walk off with anything that's left.

There is apparently a large (and unnecessary) equity released loan entailed on the property. No idea why that was taken out but as it appears that FIL might have been showing signs of dementia as early as 2014 quite possible he was talked into it by person or persons unknown and doesn't even remember this. The new will also dates from around this time according to neighbours, one of whom we think might have witnessed it. Never seen it so can't comment further. The previous will divided everything equally between my DH and his sister, with my DH as executor. The new will doesn't even mention DH or leave him a derisory amount which is very odd. Most solicitors faced with an estrangement situation would recommend an insignificant bequest as it leaves the intention of the granter in no doubt in a child estrangement situation. Perhaps it's a supermarket will with appropriate blanks filled in. It's all extremely bizarre.