triple lock

zagfles

QrizB said:

xylophone said:

and although it would have been nice, I can spend that without even thinking about it. 

The "just managing" and the really needy don't have that luxury!

Those on full  or part new state pension are in the minority.

Most pensioners are currently on  old state pension.

Doesn't Pension Credit bring anyone who is recsiving solely the old SP up to almost-new-SP income levels? If so, there should be no pensioners living solely on old SP.

Yes, for a single pensioner, less for a couple compared to 2xNSP, see https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit/what-youll-get

But it'll be the single pensioners who'll obviously be most affected by the rises in energy prices etc.

But most people on the old state pension will be getting more than just the basic state pension, some much more, they'll usually have some SERPS/S2P or a contracted out pension on top. The old state pension accrual was far more generous than the new since 2002, and before then for those who had a reasonable income.

Exceptions may be the previously self employed, or those who reached SPA before 2002 and had mainly credits or were on low pay. Since 2002 those on low pay and those getting child ben, carers etc started getting quite generous S2P credits as well as the basic state pension.

CKhalvashi

Thrugelmir said:

CKhalvashi said:

bdba13 said:

As the chancellor has done nothing to help pensioners directly I am reminded that I find it difficult to understand the reason for not using the triple lock.
Those in work were furloughed last year and were helped out, so how does it equate that returning to normal wages,increased wages by 7% or so.
Did the average worker get an actual pay rise of 7%.   No they did not. When the rate that pensions were to go up was made, it was widely thought that the increase would be so low as to put pensioners at risk of being badly hit, it has. I read all the time of government mismanagement with public money, the end result pensioners/working people suffer.

 I guarantee though with the huge drop in exports and increases in cost of living (both removing significant amounts of money from the economy) the situation is not good, and many people (including me) are just as annoyed as you.

The war in Ukraine is having more profound consequences than many people are aware of. The motor industry in particular is going to suffer badly. 

Not saying you're wrong here, but we must remember that the cost of living crisis was there before the criminal invasion of Ukraine and subsequent Special Economic Operation in Russia.

Grumpy_chap

Thrugelmir said:

CKhalvashi said:

bdba13 said:

As the chancellor has done nothing to help pensioners directly I am reminded that I find it difficult to understand the reason for not using the triple lock.
Those in work were furloughed last year and were helped out, so how does it equate that returning to normal wages,increased wages by 7% or so.
Did the average worker get an actual pay rise of 7%.   No they did not. When the rate that pensions were to go up was made, it was widely thought that the increase would be so low as to put pensioners at risk of being badly hit, it has. I read all the time of government mismanagement with public money, the end result pensioners/working people suffer.

 I guarantee though with the huge drop in exports and increases in cost of living (both removing significant amounts of money from the economy) the situation is not good, and many people (including me) are just as annoyed as you.

The war in Ukraine is having more profound consequences than many people are aware of. The motor industry in particular is going to suffer badly. 

I understand that is the reason behind Ford suspending new orders for the Focus.  A very obvious example.

More significant will be the impact on food supplies.  That will hit the poorest hardest.  

We can all survive without a new car, or find a work around.  Not so easy to dodge no bread.

p00hsticks

xylophone said:

and although it would have been nice, I can spend that without even thinking about it. 

Those on full  or part new state pension are in the minority.

Most pensioners are currently on  old state pension.

An increase of over £11 a week on the basic state pension could make a difference to the "just managing"?

I can't locate figures at present, but just because they are on the 'old' state pension it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be receiving less that if they were on the new - in fact, if contracted in, they could be getting considerably more. (Being contracted out would indicate that there is an accompanying private pension somewher along the line).

And as another poster had pointed out, if their only income is the old basic pension, then unless they have considerable savings they'd be eligible for Pension Credit, which in turn passports them to other benefits, such as Council Tax reduction, free TV licence etc

Lemon_dr1zzle

Ahh that time of year when you work in pension admin, pensioners aren’t happy about their annual increase and you haven’t had a pay rise in 2 years 🙃

Silvertabby

Lemon_dr1zzle said:

Ahh that time of year when you work in pension admin, pensioners aren’t happy about their annual increase and you haven’t had a pay rise in 2 years 🙃

Reminds me of one particular year during my time as a LGPS administrator, when I received a phone call from one of the payroll clerks (who did the payroll for both current LA employees and LGPS pensioners)....

Clerk:  A pensioner just rang to ask what this year's increase will be.  I said 1% - that's right, isn't it?

Me:  No, we are getting 1% but the pensioners are getting 5.1%.

Clerk: WAAHH! 

Silvertabby

p00hsticks said:

xylophone said:

and although it would have been nice, I can spend that without even thinking about it. 

Those on full  or part new state pension are in the minority.

Most pensioners are currently on  old state pension.

An increase of over £11 a week on the basic state pension could make a difference to the "just managing"?

I can't locate figures at present, but just because they are on the 'old' state pension it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be receiving less that if they were on the new - in fact, if contracted in, they could be getting considerably more. (Being contracted out would indicate that there is an accompanying private pension somewher along the line).

And as another poster had pointed out, if their only income is the old basic pension, then unless they have considerable savings they'd be eligible for Pension Credit, which in turn passports them to other benefits, such as Council Tax reduction, free TV licence etc

Max basic State pension plus SERPS/SP2 under the old scheme is something like £310 per week - more if the pensioner deferred payment, when the pension would be increased by over 10% per year.  Realistically, though, while £310 plus is exceptional, State pensions of over £200 per week are not.  The long term aim of the new single tier pension is to save money, not to throw more at those who reached SPA after 2016.

But the problem here seems to be those on the old State pension who were low earners throughout their working lives and so only accrued minimal levels of SERPS/SP2.  These are the ones who may need to be encouraged to apply for pension credit and all the extras that opens the door to, but it's the coming hike in fuel bills that is causing the most alarm at the moment.  

xylophone

If so, there should be no pensioners living solely on old SP.

That is not the point.

Those eligible for pension credit will also receive other assistance - see previous posts above.

Those who are on old state pension plus enough in ASP and perhaps small private provision will be above GPC level and not necessarily eligible for such assistance.

They will be the "just about managing" whom an eleven pounds a week increase in BSP would have assisted - it might have gone some way to help cover the increases in their living costs.

Thrugelmir

Grumpy_chap said:

Thrugelmir said:

CKhalvashi said:

bdba13 said:

As the chancellor has done nothing to help pensioners directly I am reminded that I find it difficult to understand the reason for not using the triple lock.
Those in work were furloughed last year and were helped out, so how does it equate that returning to normal wages,increased wages by 7% or so.
Did the average worker get an actual pay rise of 7%.   No they did not. When the rate that pensions were to go up was made, it was widely thought that the increase would be so low as to put pensioners at risk of being badly hit, it has. I read all the time of government mismanagement with public money, the end result pensioners/working people suffer.

 I guarantee though with the huge drop in exports and increases in cost of living (both removing significant amounts of money from the economy) the situation is not good, and many people (including me) are just as annoyed as you.

The war in Ukraine is having more profound consequences than many people are aware of. The motor industry in particular is going to suffer badly. 

I understand that is the reason behind Ford suspending new orders for the Focus.  A very obvious example.

More significant will be the impact on food supplies.  That will hit the poorest hardest.  

We can all survive without a new car, or find a work around.  Not so easy to dodge no bread.

Throw a pebble in a pond and watch the ripples spread...............

nigelbb

Silvertabby said:

p00hsticks said:

xylophone said:

and although it would have been nice, I can spend that without even thinking about it. 

Those on full  or part new state pension are in the minority.

Most pensioners are currently on  old state pension.

An increase of over £11 a week on the basic state pension could make a difference to the "just managing"?

I can't locate figures at present, but just because they are on the 'old' state pension it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be receiving less that if they were on the new - in fact, if contracted in, they could be getting considerably more. (Being contracted out would indicate that there is an accompanying private pension somewher along the line).

And as another poster had pointed out, if their only income is the old basic pension, then unless they have considerable savings they'd be eligible for Pension Credit, which in turn passports them to other benefits, such as Council Tax reduction, free TV licence etc

Max basic State pension plus SERPS/SP2 under the old scheme is something like £310 per week - more if the pensioner deferred payment, when the pension would be increased by over 10% per year.  Realistically, though, while £310 plus is exceptional, State pensions of over £200 per week are not.  The long term aim of the new single tier pension is to save money, not to throw more at those who reached SPA after 2016.

But the problem here seems to be those on the old State pension who were low earners throughout their working lives and so only accrued minimal levels of SERPS/SP2.  These are the ones who may need to be encouraged to apply for pension credit and all the extras that opens the door to, but it's the coming hike in fuel bills that is causing the most alarm at the moment.  

The long term aim is to ratchet up the real value of the new single tier pension as it is so low compared to other comparable countries. That's why there is the triple lock so the pension rises by at least 2.5% every year.