MSE News: Spring Statement 2022: National Insurance tax cuts and more

molerat

zagfles said:

badmemory said:

Why couldn't he announce the change to the LEL at the same time?  I'll answer that myself.  Because he is going to raise it on the QT & knows there would have been an outcry because of the lower paid who will no longer be entitled to a state pension.

Because there is no change to the LEL, except the usual inflation increase. It's going up from £120 to £123pw in April as usual in line with last Sept inflation. That's it. Don't look for silly conspiracy theories where none exist.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1062566/Draft_legislation_National_Insurance_Contributions__Increase_of_Thresholds__Bill.pdf

badmemory

zagfles said:

badmemory said:

Why couldn't he announce the change to the LEL at the same time?  I'll answer that myself.  Because he is going to raise it on the QT & knows there would have been an outcry because of the lower paid who will no longer be entitled to a state pension.

Because there is no change to the LEL, except the usual inflation increase. It's going up from £120 to £123pw in April as usual in line with last Sept inflation. That's it. Don't look for silly conspiracy theories where none exist.

Thank you - I have been trying to find the answer to this for over 24 hours & you are the first person that has said there is no change apart from inflation.  I would have prefered to see something published after the speech but it is what it is.

RobM99

It's tinkering with pence -as usual. No big impact for most.

molerat

badmemory said:

zagfles said:

badmemory said:

Why couldn't he announce the change to the LEL at the same time?  I'll answer that myself.  Because he is going to raise it on the QT & knows there would have been an outcry because of the lower paid who will no longer be entitled to a state pension.

Because there is no change to the LEL, except the usual inflation increase. It's going up from £120 to £123pw in April as usual in line with last Sept inflation. That's it. Don't look for silly conspiracy theories where none exist.

Thank you - I have been trying to find the answer to this for over 24 hours & you are the first person that has said there is no change apart from inflation.  I would have prefered to see something published after the speech but it is what it is.

Why would they publish something about what they are not changing ?  The NI rates and thresholds for 22-23 had already been published and the draft legislation to amend what is being changed has now been published.  Linked in my post above.

badmemory

Could be something to do with lack of trust.  You know along the lines of triple lock 8% whoops cancel that only double lock now.

Grumpy_chap

Stuart_W said:

Joseph Rowntree Foundation have summed up nicely who, when inflation is taken into account, are suffering the biggest income change. The poorest become poorer. This is what leveling up looks like is it?

Thanks for sharing that analysis @Stuart_W and I respect JRF as an organisation to show data independently as it is, but I don't understand why the graph shows every income band apart from the highest decile as having some impact from benefits and inflation varying.  I would have thought it was far more than simply the upper decile that receive no benefits. 

The obvious would be pensions, but the graph is titled "working age households" so that would mean that it is not pensions that are impacting the net change for the higher deciles.

zagfles

badmemory said:

Could be something to do with lack of trust.  You know along the lines of triple lock 8% whoops cancel that only double lock now.

Which was announced. It's some pressure groups' analyses you can't seem to trust...as above...

zagfles

Grumpy_chap said:

Stuart_W said:

Joseph Rowntree Foundation have summed up nicely who, when inflation is taken into account, are suffering the biggest income change. The poorest become poorer. This is what leveling up looks like is it?

Thanks for sharing that analysis @Stuart_W and I respect JRF as an organisation to show data independently as it is, but I don't understand why the graph shows every income band apart from the highest decile as having some impact from benefits and inflation varying.  I would have thought it was far more than simply the upper decile that receive no benefits. 

The obvious would be pensions, but the graph is titled "working age households" so that would mean that it is not pensions that are impacting the net change for the higher deciles.

I also used to think the JRF were generally a reliable source of info, but that graph is misleading in a number of ways.

For a start, it's titled "impact of spring statement on working age households". But then it includes the effect of "benefits not going up by inflation". That was not a spring statement decision, the timing of benefits uprating with inflation was decided decades ago, the previous Labour govt used the same method, index by Sept inflation rate.

So if they're including stuff not announced in the Spring statement in their analysis, what about other stuff like the PA freeze, higher rate theshold freeze, council tax rebate. And they've missed stuff that was in the spring statement like the fuel duty cut.

Also how many peoples' earnings are increasing by 6.2%, the current inflation rate? Mine aren't, likely to be around 3%, less than benefits are increasing. So they want to account for benefit rates going up less than inflation, but the vast majority of earners will see less than inflation pay rises too, that's not accounted for. If it were, the graph would be far smoother and more realistic.

ETA: a more balanced assessment from the IFS here: https://ifs.org.uk/spring-statement-2022

zaceverett

So as a home owner with an ever-growing energy bill I'm trying to purchase some wall and loft insulation.

After Rishi spring statement with 0% vat on insulation all the builders merchants I've looked at purchasing from are still applying VAT to these products stating I need to claim the VAT back.

I've just spoken to HMRC and they cannot help as I'm not a business so cant claim back VAT there advice was to try and ask the merchants to mark the product as zero and not charge it. I don't think Jewson or other national companies are going to listen to me. Having spoke to Jewson, MaterialsMarket and BPS Buildit. They have all stated, no I must pay VAT and then claim it back.

Rishi, this is a big con. I just cant buy these products at 0%.

Please help, this will potentially save me hundreds of pounds

Dazed_and_C0nfused

zaceverett said:

So as a home owner with an ever-growing energy bill I'm trying to purchase some wall and loft insulation.

After Rishi spring statement with 0% vat on insulation all the builders merchants I've looked at purchasing from are still applying VAT to these products stating I need to claim the VAT back.

I've just spoken to HMRC and they cannot help as I'm not a business so cant claim back VAT there advice was to try and ask the merchants to mark the product as zero and not charge it. I don't think Jewson or other national companies are going to listen to me. Having spoke to Jewson, MaterialsMarket and BPS Buildit. They have all stated, no I must pay VAT and then claim it back.

Rishi, this is a big con. I just cant buy these products at 0%.

Please help, this will potentially save me hundreds of pounds

I think you have misunderstood things.

The change looks to have been about installation, not you going out and buying the materials yourself.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-the-vat-treatment-of-the-installation-of-energy-saving-materials-in-in-great-britain/the-value-added-tax-installation-of-energy-saving-materials-order-2022