Is a soft muzzle suitable?

Naomim

We rescued a 4 month old female puppy who had been abandoned at the vets along with two litter mates.  My friend has one of the other girls.

Obviously we don't know how their first 4 months were and how they were socialised, if at all.  She's now about 6 - 7 months old and a very sweet girl. She is a big though, we had a DNA test done on them and they are German Shepherd/Labrador cross. She's very excitiable and playful which is great and as it should be. We've been working on puppy training classes, recall, lead walking etc. She loves to play with other dogs but is really boisterous with them. If they run from her she chases but once she's caught up to them she doesn't know what to do and jumps all over them and is quite bitey with the back of their necks. As she's so excited she loses all recall as she's in the zone. She's been told off by a few dogs but doesn't really seem to catch on they don't want her all over them.  

I am alone with her Mon - Weds whilst MrM is in the office and he is home with her Thurs-Fri whilst I'm at work. It's starting to make me anxious when I'm taking her out for a run and she definitely needs to burn off the energy. I'm trying to find places I that are fairly quiet but I can't avoid all dogs and I want her to be able to play.  If she's on the lead and sees another dogs she's very barky as she's frustrated she can't get to them to play.  

I was wondering whether a soft muzzle might be the answer? 

Thanks

Naomim

SensibleSarah

Hi, Congrats on your new addition! 

I would absolutely say that your pup needs to learn manners with play and until she does that, she shouldn't be allowed off lead in public as she's currently practicing unacceptable behaviour by the sounds of it, and all it takes is one random dog that she meets to take exception to it and she could be badly hurt. Also, if she's running up to everyone she sees, there are no guarantees that other dogs are approachable anyway and you're not only risking your own dog, but also risking setting another dog back with their own journey. I don't think muzzling is the right thing to do, as a) your dog won't be able to defend herself and will feel very vulnerable, which can cause other unwanted behaviours, b) having a bouncy pup jumping all over another dog isn't acceptable and by letting her continue this, even when muzzled, you're not dealing with the issue and that's unfair to the dogs you meet and your dog won't have a reason to change her behaviour, and c) soft muzzles generally don't let the dog pant or drink properly so shouldn't be used on walks as dogs can easily overheat.

One of my dogs is super-friendly with all dogs and my other (both rescues) is extremely dog reactive and can't be around random dogs currently - and has a lot of barrier frustration when he sees other dogs on walks, but it would be totally irresponsible to let him off the lead. He's not aggressive - just gobby - but it's unfair to expect other dogs and their owners to deal with that so we stay away and he gets plenty of time on a 10-20 metre long line and occasional walks in a hired secure field where he can go off the lead without the risk of meeting other dogs. It's a work in progress and he's steadily improving in general, but we have lots of setbacks - usually when an offlead dog with no recall decides to approach him even though he's going ballistic - and it can take days or even weeks for him to get back on track after each incident like this, which is very frustrating. 6 months in and every walk is a stressful challenge - but I have faith that we'll get there in the end. 

I'd recommend that you speak to a behaviourist/trainer who uses positive methods and see if you can get onto an adolescent dog class - this is a time when they really push boundaries and need managing really carefully. Any kind of 'free for all' play should be avoided as all this will do is reinforce the bad habits she's developing - especially if she's not listening when other dogs try to correct her. It's not the job of other dogs to correct her over the top play, that's your role and a good trainer will be able to give you the right tools to work on that. 

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Naomim

Thank you so much for your answer. We have been doing classes with her and I love the teacher who came recommended. It is all positive praise and correction.  I'm happy to continue with the trainers to  help her learn but MrM is another hurdle. 

Muzzling is the last thing I want to do and accept as you have said that other dogs might not be so happy for her to say hello for whatever reason or part of their journey they are on. Part of our class teaching was that it's not ok to go up to other dogs all the time but my intelligent pup just isn't getting it. She's like the friendliest kid on the block who wants to play with everyone! 😂 On a lead walk, if we see other dogs I always ask the owner if we can say hello and sometimes we just walk past (with the help of treats).

I'll continue with the training and see if I can find a local secure field I could hire out.  

SensibleSarah

Tell MrM he's doing all the walks unless he agrees to keep training  !

It can definitely be really hard to teach them not to run up to other dogs - my labrador (the friendly one who is off lead 95% of the time on walks) is a bit TOO friendly and likes to say hello to everyone - which makes my reactive dog worse when he sees her playing with others  so I've been working on that with her too since I adopted her last June (my reactive one arrived last Sept) and have found I just need to make myself more exciting than the other dogs - usually achieved with the help of cooked sausage in my pocket! I've trained a whistle recall (so there is absolutely no confusion over what it means as the whistle only ever means "come here now") that she gets a really high value treat for which she doesn't get for anything else, which seems to work really well and she will choose that over other dogs. 
She gets a separate walk (just me and her) on her own every day so she still gets chance to meet and play with other dogs, but she's now learned (more or less) that she needs to stick close to me when I walk the two together every morning and we often need to take quick evasive action to avoid other dogs. 

Most areas have some secure fields not too far away. I live in a city but only need to go aboout 10-15 miles to find a few. Well worth it every now and again to work on some training without risk of interruption and if you know some good steady dogs that won't take any messing around from your girl (appropriately) then you could invite them along to share the space and see if you can make some progress with her rough play. 

sheramber

Definitely not a soft muzzle. It prevents the dog panting and could cause more behavioural issues.

Her behaviour sounds normal for both the breeds in her make up.  My gsd cross was also a frustrated greeter.

it also sounds like she is not getting her brain exercised- just as important as physical exercise. Look into clicker trainer. It is great fun for the dogs and makes them use their brain. 15 minutes clicker training tired my Dalmatian out more than 1 hour physical  exercise

Do not let her get her too boisterous with other dogs,  it will be come ingrained behaviour and be more difficult to stop.

Manage her introductions and remove her from the situation as soon as she gets over enthusiastic. She will learn the fun stops when she does that. Once she is calm you can let her interact again. 

 Speak to your trainer about her behaviour and of she  doesn't come up with  a plan then consult a behaviourist. Not every trainer has the experience to deal with specific problems but should be able to admit if it is beyond them.

Naomim

Thank you, it's made me feel better about practising the training we have. I need to practice with the long lead! First time I came home with practically a dislocated arm and rope burn on my hands! 

I try to do lots of interactive training games with her to keep her brain occupied too. She's also a stubborn madam but I do see progress. I can get out the stairgate at the front room now without fighting her out the way.  We've just got a brilliant new snuffle mat from Etsy which she loves and it slows down her eating.😂  I'm also starting to rotate toys to mitigate boredom when they are all available all the time.

I'll look more into the clicker and whistle training. I really like the sound of the whistle recall. I certainly know the more anxious I am when she won't come back the more high pitched I get and I know anxiety isn't good for the dogs and I need to relax more and take control.  Our old dog was a cavalier who we had from a 10week old puppy and fairly calm and well behaved, unless there was a sniff of a picnic somewhere. So a rescue big breed is completely new to us

You have both helped me make the deciscion not to muzzle but keep on with practising good manners until she's a well mannered young lady.

Thank you again.

Naomim

SensibleSarah

Oh I know all about the long line pain and rope burn - my reactive boy is a big teenage lump of a dog and he sometimes forgets all about the no-pulling rules  

I always wear gloves when using it now and have bought a really good rubberised long line by a brand called Heim which is much cheaper than biothane but doesn't get wet or pick up much mud at all (essential for at least 9 months of the year) and is very grippy. Think it was from Zooplus. 

Oh and the whistle - I bought an Acme whistle from amazon as I wanted it to sound consistent every time for recall. I also bought a spare as it would be just my luck to lose one at an inopportune moment! 

sheramber

if you keep calling her she knows you are still there.  If she is playing with another dog call once then keep quiet. To begin with she might not notice but eventually she will. When she looks for you call her name and run away but let her catch you  When she does, lots of praise- even although you may not feel like it. Coming to you must always be a good experience.

Practice at home calling her away form things. Practice calling her between two people with a reward from each when she comes. Go out of the room and call her to find you.
Call her to come for her dinner and to get her lead on to go for a walk. Lots of praise and a game when she does. 

Play hide and seek on walks. Duck behind a bush or tree -  It doesn't matter of you are not fully hidden- then call her.

When walking her call her and turn and walk the other way.  When she catches up turn and walk back the priginal way. 

The more she comes when you call the more it will become an automatic response so lots of easy recalls with lots of praise a reward.

Training a dog is an ongoing task ,not completed in a few weeks or months.

Enjoy your dog.

Naomim

Just thought I'd pop on and give an update.

The whistle and sausages are working well.  I found I can get a bag of 20 frozen sausages in MrT's for £1. Bargain!!  I've been managing interactions, letting her having a sniff and walking on by and the recall is definitely improving. Today was the first time she returned every single time. 👌

I still need to work on her jumping at people, it's over enthusiasm but not everyone is so pleased 🤦‍♀️

Thank you again.

Naomim + pupster.🐶

theoretica

I saw on our local facebook group someone arranging doggy play dates for what seemed a relatively similar situation to yours.  Someone who had a reasonably friendly but no-nonsense older dog which apparently had high standards of expected behaviour for youngsters was happy to meet up.  Seemed like a good idea to me, and the dog learning from another dog, not just from humans.