Unsatisfactory reference from former employer

prowla

As per other comments - many employers will only give those basic facts.

There is still a value in that, as it at least confirms the fact of being employed, as opposed to inventing fake work history.

Marcon

robatwork said:

Andy_L said:

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

I had no idea that it's illegal in any industry to refuse to give a reference, but @Jillanddy seems a knowledgeable member on this forum so I too am interested to see the legislation itself. I was also of the opinion any employer could either a) refuse a request or b) give the minimum info.

To the OP - as a company we only ever give dates started and finished and confirm they were an employee. If they were especially valued and left with no bad feelings we may state that they were valued and we wouldn't hesitate to employ them  again. One particular nightmare of an employee got a "wouldn't employ again" but advice from our legal representatives was that when it comes to references, less is more. 

I too would be interested to know where this legal requirement for references in childcare and other regulated industries comes from.

The only industry I'm aware of where a reference is required by law is financial services and it's the FCA which sets the rules here. Good explanation: https://landaulaw.co.uk/references/

ACAS also refers only to financial services: https://www.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference

unforeseen

Jillanddy said:

robatwork said:

Andy_L said:

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

I had no idea that it's illegal in any industry to refuse to give a reference, but @Jillanddy seems a knowledgeable member on this forum so I too am interested to see the legislation itself. I was also of the opinion any employer could either a) refuse a request or b) give the minimum info.

To the OP - as a company we only ever give dates started and finished and confirm they were an employee. If they were especially valued and left with no bad feelings we may state that they were valued and we wouldn't hesitate to employ them  again. One particular nightmare of an employee got a "wouldn't employ again" but advice from our legal representatives was that when it comes to references, less is more. 

I am not sure that it is legislative (or it may be in different pieces of legislation). But the regulative bodies of various industries require references to be provided - childcare being one, but also banking and other finance type jobs, the legal profession, and probably others. According to my colleagues in children's social care employers in childcare must provide a reference and that reference should confirm, as a minimum, employment dates and "any relevant information" (such as disciplinary records or other concerns). Those references, alongside the DBS check, constititute the required due diligence for OFSTED registration. Because my department fund a number of such facilities out of other public funds, we have to advise applicants that these are the minimum requirements and that our contract managers may have to check their paperwork is in order. There are sampling checks done from time to time by us, but nothing more than that as we are not responsible for the registration, just for some of the funding. 

Taken from.  https://www.wiganlscb.com/Docs/PDF/Professional/Guide-to-obtaining-references-education.pdf

No employer is obliged to provide a narrative reference - even schools - and there is nothing in the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) about providing or gaining qualitative references. All that can be insisted upon is an answer to the questions about suitability.  

unforeseen

It's more likely that as it is not stipulated, the different childcare services departments are setting their own conditions and declaring them regulations.
The same way that guidelines become a mandatory requirements magically

Andy_L

Jillanddy said:

Marcon said:

robatwork said:

Andy_L said:

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

I had no idea that it's illegal in any industry to refuse to give a reference, but @Jillanddy seems a knowledgeable member on this forum so I too am interested to see the legislation itself. I was also of the opinion any employer could either a) refuse a request or b) give the minimum info.

To the OP - as a company we only ever give dates started and finished and confirm they were an employee. If they were especially valued and left with no bad feelings we may state that they were valued and we wouldn't hesitate to employ them  again. One particular nightmare of an employee got a "wouldn't employ again" but advice from our legal representatives was that when it comes to references, less is more. 

I too would be interested to know where this legal requirement for references in childcare and other regulated industries comes from.

The only industry I'm aware of where a reference is required by law is financial services and it's the FCA which sets the rules here. Good explanation: https://landaulaw.co.uk/references/

ACAS also refers only to financial services: https://www.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference

I have already explained at 12.30pm. 

Do you have a link to the childcare regulatory body's regulations that say they must give references?

Andy_L

Jillanddy said:

Please read the many previous posts. I have already answered that point and more. If you want to disagree,  please do. I will continue to operate in line with what I am told,  and appears to be confirmed by some others here,  by Children's Services. 

So that's a no then. Fair enough, but that's not much help to the OP or anyone else searching the site for advice in a similar situation 

Marcon

Jillanddy said:

Marcon said:

robatwork said:

Andy_L said:

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

I had no idea that it's illegal in any industry to refuse to give a reference, but @Jillanddy seems a knowledgeable member on this forum so I too am interested to see the legislation itself. I was also of the opinion any employer could either a) refuse a request or b) give the minimum info.

To the OP - as a company we only ever give dates started and finished and confirm they were an employee. If they were especially valued and left with no bad feelings we may state that they were valued and we wouldn't hesitate to employ them  again. One particular nightmare of an employee got a "wouldn't employ again" but advice from our legal representatives was that when it comes to references, less is more. 

I too would be interested to know where this legal requirement for references in childcare and other regulated industries comes from.

The only industry I'm aware of where a reference is required by law is financial services and it's the FCA which sets the rules here. Good explanation: https://landaulaw.co.uk/references/

ACAS also refers only to financial services: https://www.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference

I have already explained at 12.30pm. 

But it doesn't answer the question, I'm afraid, or I wouldn't have asked. Just repeating an assertion doesn't make it correct - you need to be able to cite the relevant authority, legal or otherwise. Perhaps you could check with someone in your Children's Services, since the point is actually a very important one (as is an accurate answer).

Ms_Chocaholic

This might be useful reading

https://www.wiganlscb.com/Docs/PDF/Professional/Guide-to-obtaining-references-education.pdf

Ms_Chocaholic

I also found this

https://api.warwickshire.gov.uk/documents/WCCC-575-208

Sandtree

Jillanddy said:

robatwork said:

Andy_L said:

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

I had no idea that it's illegal in any industry to refuse to give a reference, but @Jillanddy seems a knowledgeable member on this forum so I too am interested to see the legislation itself. I was also of the opinion any employer could either a) refuse a request or b) give the minimum info.

To the OP - as a company we only ever give dates started and finished and confirm they were an employee. If they were especially valued and left with no bad feelings we may state that they were valued and we wouldn't hesitate to employ them  again. One particular nightmare of an employee got a "wouldn't employ again" but advice from our legal representatives was that when it comes to references, less is more. 

I am not sure that it is legislative (or it may be in different pieces of legislation). But the regulative bodies of various industries require references to be provided - childcare being one, but also banking and other finance type jobs, the legal profession, and probably others. According to my colleagues in children's social care employers in childcare must provide a reference and that reference should confirm, as a minimum, employment dates and "any relevant information" (such as disciplinary records or other concerns). 

Finance jobs dont have a legal requirement around references @jillanddy... the regulations require that they hire appropriate members of staff and getting references is one way of substantiating that but the requirement isn't explicitly for references and it certainly doesn't place any legal requirement on any company to provide a potential FS employer a reference on its candidates. In fact most FS companies are the worst for providing bare bones references despite the fact they ask for more for potential employees.

It sounds like a pub conversation with someone who had a conversation with someone down the pub last month that's then repeated as a fact.