Unsatisfactory reference from former employer

Savvy_Sue

mikee31 said:

Further, given the unsatisfactory reference she has received, she herself cannot give a reference to some of the staff she has recommended to her new workplace, leaving their positions in jeopardy as well. The former boss has refused to give these staff a reference at all. 

Errr, why not? Is that what the new employer has said? 

My concern would be that over time, she won't have access to the records of when people started, when they left, whether there were any issues. 

TELLIT01

mikee31 said:

Thanks. As she was 2nd in charge there were no others of a similar or more senior level other than the former boss.

The new employer are a much more professional outfit which is good, but they’re also taking the limited reference as being somewhat concerning. Although they have said that my partner is performing well in the few weeks she’s been there so you would hope it wasn’t an issue.

Its just also very disappointing for the other new staff who cannot seem to get a reference.

A 'professional outfit' should be aware that many employers now only provide a very basic reference, as has been provided in this case.  Added to that the closure of the former business and anything more would be the exception.

Sandtree

There is absolutely nothing in it for the previous employers to invest time and therefore money in writing a reference that may ultimately get them sued, even if its vexatious litigation it still costs more time and money to defend it. 

Whilst @jillanddy is insistent that EYFS demands more full references the online articles I see (admittedly from a couple of years ago) state only DBS checks are mandatory whereas 2 references per employee are cited as best practice not mandatory plus this still doesn't compel the previous/current employer to provide them especially as they may not be in the early years education industry. 

If the new employer is more professional then I would agree with others that they should understand the situation that the previous employer no longer exists and that references these days are rarely anything more than a confirmation of start and end date. 

Andy_L

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

mikee31

Ok thanks all. I wasn't intending to create any disputes between posters, I was just seeing if anything further could be done to make the situation easier for my partner and others. Given she has worked in childcare for 10 plus years for the same employer, has the relevant DBS check, has gone through a period whereby her former boss had lied about wages, provided wage slips which didn't align with the wages being paid out, left staff unpaid after their final month of employment, hasn't provided P45s, and now is either not giving references or just a basic one to a long standing staff member, it seems to be a bit of a liberty that there is no accountability with the former boss, who has employment elsewhere in a childcare training capacity. They have effectively got away with leaving former employees in a difficult situation whereby not only are they out of pocket but also struggling to enter into new employment through no fault of their own and despite trying to make contact they fail to respond making it difficult to find any resolution. It was felt that a more complimentary reference should have at least been the minimum they could have done in the circumstances.

Undervalued

The whole reference issue can be difficult.

As has been pointed out, in the vast majority of occupations there is no legal requirement to provide a reference at all. A refusal, or simply ignoring a request, is often seen as having nothing good to say but is completely non actionable.

In a few regulated occupations, such as this, there is a legal requirement but that doesn't stop the organisation from doing the absolute minimum to comply. That too can be seen as unfavourable.

Although bare bones references are the norm in some fields that is not universal by any means and again can be misunderstood if the requesting company normally expects "chapter and verse".

Anybody providing a reference (full, bare bones or a legally required one under sufferance) has an equal duty to both parties to be honest and not deliberately misleading. Yes, it is possible to paint a totally false picture without saying a single word that is untrue!

Sncjw

Was the former boss owner of an I dependant childcare facility or manager of a chain?

Also why would the new place hire her if they haven't got references back 

mikee31

Sncjw said:

Was the former boss owner of an I dependant childcare facility or manager of a chain?

Also why would the new place hire her if they haven't got references back 

Independent.

Having the appropriate qualifications, submitting an impressive CV, performing well and correctly answering questions during the application/interview process. I believe most places don't wait around for the references, but may be wrong.

pinkshoes

The reference is minimal rather than unsatisfactory. I was expecting to read that the previous employer had written something awful about her!

As already stated, they have given a reference containing the minimum details e.g. confirmation of employment period and no safeguarding concerns. This is fine, albeit disappointing.

If her new employer is decent, they will understand that the former employer was clearly upset at their business folding hence not wanting to cooperate with detailed references.

A fantastic nursery near us closed for similar reasons. Amazing nursery, lovely people who ran it, but unfortunately book keeping and a business mind were not their strong point and they struggled to make it financially viable. 

robatwork

Andy_L said:

Jillanddy said:

Childcare is a regulated industry, and it is illegal to refuse to give a reference. That said, provided that the reference contains all "relevant information" - which basically means that there are no safeguarding concerns - then the requirement is satisfied. The new employer is understandably concerned in this circumstance - basic references are exceptionally unusual in such settings, but there is little that she can do about that.

Do you have a link to the legislation that the OP could forward to their previous employer to kick them into life?

I had no idea that it's illegal in any industry to refuse to give a reference, but @Jillanddy seems a knowledgeable member on this forum so I too am interested to see the legislation itself. I was also of the opinion any employer could either a) refuse a request or b) give the minimum info.

To the OP - as a company we only ever give dates started and finished and confirm they were an employee. If they were especially valued and left with no bad feelings we may state that they were valued and we wouldn't hesitate to employ them  again. One particular nightmare of an employee got a "wouldn't employ again" but advice from our legal representatives was that when it comes to references, less is more.