Advice needed - landlord using our electricity

Robin9

As your electrician has identified that the supply to the shed is a single fuse it will be a simple job (for the landlord) to get a meter fitted .

Ultrasonic

Might anyone fitting an additional meter be in dodgy legal territory, given it would be to help facilitate a domestic supply being used by a business?

doodling

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

I'd be careful about making any accusations.  Being charitable, it's just theoretically possible that the electrical arrangements were overlooked when the landlord rented out the property to you, or that the landlord was intending to get A Round Tuit but has since been distracted by other issues.  Even if you're fairly sure it's a rip-off, initially treating it as an innocent omission will allow face saving and improve the chances of a satisfactory resolution.

Similar thinking suggests that you should say nothing and just 'innocently' leave the relevant circuits switched off and see what happens.  At least you won't be paying for more than you are using, and the onus will be on the landlord to approach you.  If he does then you can feign total surprise and bafflement and he will have to offer an explanation.  Starting from that point should make it much easier to reach a friendly agreement.

You could then 'innocently' suggest that he fits a sub-meter (at his own expense) in your house and pays you for the kWh used by his business, together with half of the standing charges.  Knowing the ongoing amounts recorded by the sub-meter would then allow you to get a good idea of past consumption and to request appropriate repayment.

The attraction of this approach is that it puts the ball in the landlord's court and offers a face-saving, non-confrontational way out for both parties.  You'll suspect that he's knowingly been fiddling it, he'll suspect that you've deliberately cut his power off, but with goodwill from both sides it can all proceed with sweetness and light.

If he doesn't play ball and the gloves come off then at least you'll have the satisfaction being seen to have been reasonable, and this should help you if a dispute has to go to some sort of arbitration.

Whilst I agree with the initial approach and fitting a sub-meter has its attractions, I'm not sure that it is the best long term solution.  Having a sub-meter installed leaves the tenant in the position of having to reclaim some of their electricity bill each month with all the hassle (and potential disagreements) that go with it.  It is however an excellent initial approach to establish just how much electricity is being used and therefore provide an estimate of how much the tenant has subsidised the business (and is therefore owed).

The long term solution is a separate supply for the business.  Whether this can be achieved, or whether it is easier for the landlord to simply get a new tenant who doesn't notice these things is a different question.

With regard to the last point, unless the tenant has in some way agreed to provide power to the business (check the tenancy agreement) then turning the supply off and leaving it off seems a very reasonable thing to do, they are perfectly entitled to decide what to do with their own electricity.  Of course, if the tenant is not in a fixed term then it is also perfectly reasonable for the landlord to ask a court to end the tenancy, assuming that the tenancy is an AST in England (and possibly other parts of the UK although my knowledge on Welsh and Scottish tenancies is less than my limited knowledge on English ones).

gj373

1. Start looking for a new place to live, landlord not to be trusted
2. Flip the fuse off and leave it off, why should you keep paying for their energy use
3. Report the theft of energy to the police

Ultrasonic

gj373 said:

3. Report the theft of energy to the police

Jumping straight to doing this would be decidedly unwise IMHO.

marcia_

gj373 said:

1. Start looking for a new place to live, landlord not to be trusted
2. Flip the fuse off and leave it off, why should you keep paying for their energy use
3. Report the theft of energy to the police

 This is what I would do, would be too worried about the LL reaction if i called the police 

Gerry1

doodling said:

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

I'd be careful about making any accusations.  Being charitable, it's just theoretically possible that the electrical arrangements were overlooked when the landlord rented out the property to you, or that the landlord was intending to get A Round Tuit but has since been distracted by other issues.  Even if you're fairly sure it's a rip-off, initially treating it as an innocent omission will allow face saving and improve the chances of a satisfactory resolution.

Similar thinking suggests that you should say nothing and just 'innocently' leave the relevant circuits switched off and see what happens.  At least you won't be paying for more than you are using, and the onus will be on the landlord to approach you.  If he does then you can feign total surprise and bafflement and he will have to offer an explanation.  Starting from that point should make it much easier to reach a friendly agreement.

You could then 'innocently' suggest that he fits a sub-meter (at his own expense) in your house and pays you for the kWh used by his business, together with half of the standing charges.  Knowing the ongoing amounts recorded by the sub-meter would then allow you to get a good idea of past consumption and to request appropriate repayment.

The attraction of this approach is that it puts the ball in the landlord's court and offers a face-saving, non-confrontational way out for both parties.  You'll suspect that he's knowingly been fiddling it, he'll suspect that you've deliberately cut his power off, but with goodwill from both sides it can all proceed with sweetness and light.

If he doesn't play ball and the gloves come off then at least you'll have the satisfaction being seen to have been reasonable, and this should help you if a dispute has to go to some sort of arbitration.

Whilst I agree with the initial approach and fitting a sub-meter has its attractions, I'm not sure that it is the best long term solution.  Having a sub-meter installed leaves the tenant in the position of having to reclaim some of their electricity bill each month with all the hassle (and potential disagreements) that go with it.  It is however an excellent initial approach to establish just how much electricity is being used and therefore provide an estimate of how much the tenant has subsidised the business (and is therefore owed).

The long term solution is a separate supply for the business.  Whether this can be achieved, or whether it is easier for the landlord to simply get a new tenant who doesn't notice these things is a different question.

With regard to the last point, unless the tenant has in some way agreed to provide power to the business (check the tenancy agreement) then turning the supply off and leaving it off seems a very reasonable thing to do, they are perfectly entitled to decide what to do with their own electricity.  Of course, if the tenant is not in a fixed term then it is also perfectly reasonable for the landlord to ask a court to end the tenancy, assuming that the tenancy is an AST in England (and possibly other parts of the UK although my knowledge on Welsh and Scottish tenancies is less than my limited knowledge on English ones).

@doodling Lots of good points there.  The idea of the sub-meter and the landlord paying for usage is effectively a bit of a bluff to determine the landlord's attitude, e.g. a genuine oversight or a deliberate attempt at theft.

As @FreeBear and @Ultrasonic have noted, the landlord would be breaking the rules by using a domestic supply for a business, but that isn't the tenant's direct concern.

If the landlord didn't honour any agreement to pay for usage, the tenant could deduct the amount from the rent, but the landlord's intentions would probably have become clear long before then.

bbsparkles

Thanks all, this is very useful. I didn’t know that there was a difference in charges between electricity for business and domestic use so that’s an additional consideration.

They already know that we know about it, as they offered the one off £20 payment when we raised it with the estate agent, so if I was to switch it off they would know that it was to provoke a reaction. But since we are prepared to move that wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing and may lead to some sort of resolution. 

Although I hate the idea of them doing the same thing to subsequent tenants.

theoretica

bbsparkles said:

Although I hate the idea of them doing the same thing to subsequent tenants.

Write a letter to the new tenants a few weeks after they will have moved in?

Gerry1

If it all goes pear shaped because your landlord effectively turns out to be a rogue and you are forced to move out, remember to return the favour by reporting the facts to Citizens Advice, the local council and the electricity supplier.