Advice needed - landlord using our electricity

bbsparkles

Good morning all, I was hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on an energy issue.

We have recently discovered that our landlord has been using our electricity to run his business premises that sits behind our house. We have been here more than 5 years and often see lights left on and hear power tools being used in there but had no idea the power for this was coming from our supply.

A quick google and obviously common sense tells me that this is illegal. We pay for our energy and other bills on top of rent, so it is costing us money but I’ve no way of knowing how much or how much they have cost us over the last 5+ years.

I spoke to the estate agent who pleaded ignorance and we were offered a one off payment of £20 by the landlords to cover costs. Does this seem right? What would you do in the circumstances?

MattMattMattUK

bbsparkles said:

Good morning all, I was hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on an energy issue.

We have recently discovered that our landlord has been using our electricity to run his business premises that sits behind our house. We have been here more than 5 years and often see lights left on and hear power tools being used in there but had no idea the power for this was coming from our supply.

Do you know for sure that it is coming from your supply now? Have you figured out how the supply is connected and unplugged the cable or flipped the relevant switch? The nature of the supply will also give you a reasonable idea of how much power might have been used, eg. standard 13 amp socket run by an extension lead, 50 amp fuse on the panel etc.

bbsparkles said:

A quick google and obviously common sense tells me that this is illegal. We pay for our energy and other bills on top of rent, so it is costing us money but I’ve no way of knowing how much or how much they have cost us over the last 5+ years.

It is possibly illegal, it could be theft of energy, but I would be wary of making accusations of criminality without evidence. You could make a rough stab at how much your energy bill is above average if high. Some lights and a few power tools is likely fairly low usage, however if he was operating a lathe or arc welder then the usage would be very high, so it really depends on what the equipment is. It could be £5 pcm, it could be £50, without more information it is impossible to know. 

bbsparkles said:

I spoke to the estate agent who pleaded ignorance

It is unlikely that the estate agent would have known. What does the electricidal safety certificate say? Is the premises he is operating from legally a business premises, or is it just an large shed at the bottom of the garden?

bbsparkles said:

and we were offered a one off payment of £20 by the landlords to cover costs. Does this seem right?

If it has being going on for 5+ years then that is almost certainly inadequate, but it might well exceed the monthly usage depending on what the nature of his business actually is. 

bbsparkles said:

What would you do in the circumstances?

Probably move out, as it is a breach of trust with the landlord. 

[Deleted User]

Hi,

how did you discover, switch your mains off and his place went dark?

If his place is on a separate switch just leave it off.

What type of business?

Would probably cost him a lot to get his own supply in.

poppellerant

I'd be trying each of your breakers or fuses to see which one (if any) disconnects your landlord's electric - also note which affect your property and be suspicious of the ones that don't seem to do anything.

While I'd speak with Citizen's Advice first, I'd also prepare for a move.  It's quite likely that your landlord isn't going to like your actions in the near future, especially if they hit their wallet.

cx6

If true, this is straightforward theft and thus a criminal matter

Ultrasonic

I would personally be factoring in how much you may want to keep living in your current home in how you proceed from here.

bbsparkles

To answer a few questions: We found out during a standard electricity safety check when the electrician asked about access to the building at the back. I said it was nothing to do with us and he pointed out that there was a fuse for the building amongst the others. So the next time I could see the lights were on out there I flipped the fuse a couple of times and lo and behold the lights in the building went on and off.

It is a building company and they use the building for prepping materials for jobs. The lights are often on late into the evening, through weekends and overnight. We have no way of knowing exactly what tools they’re using or how often.

With energy prices the way they are we are being so careful with our own consumption so I feel we have to do something about it. We are prepared to challenge them on it further and to move if necessary, but should we also seek reimbursement?

Ant555

bbsparkles said:

he pointed out that there was a fuse for the building. 

With energy prices the way they are we are being so careful with our own consumption so I feel we have to do something about it. 

I completely agree with keeping tabs on the energy consumption due to the cost and this is in effect a free pass for the building company to use whatever they want.  I would bet that there are power tools constantly on charge - do they heat it by electricity in the winter (potentially VERY expensive)

What would happen if you left the switch in the off position - would the landlord come and ask you I wonder?  At that point its a potentially difficult conversation on the landlords part not yours.

I dont see any easy solution though - if they offer you, say, £x per month then thats the green light for the business to use an unlimited amount for that £x.

Is it possible to get a fuse for your fuse box with a monitor on it to record kWh I wonder?

MWT

bbsparkles said:

With energy prices the way they are we are being so careful with our own consumption so I feel we have to do something about it. We are prepared to challenge them on it further and to move if necessary, but should we also seek reimbursement?

Let's try to frame the potential use, start with your annual use as per your bills, what do they show?

Preferably use actual meter readings roughly a year apart if you have them...

Gerry1

I'd be careful about making any accusations.  Being charitable, it's just theoretically possible that the electrical arrangements were overlooked when the landlord rented out the property to you, or that the landlord was intending to get A Round Tuit but has since been distracted by other issues.  Even if you're fairly sure it's a rip-off, initially treating it as an innocent omission will allow face saving and improve the chances of a satisfactory resolution.

Similar thinking suggests that you should say nothing and just 'innocently' leave the relevant circuits switched off and see what happens.  At least you won't be paying for more than you are using, and the onus will be on the landlord to approach you.  If he does then you can feign total surprise and bafflement and he will have to offer an explanation.  Starting from that point should make it much easier to reach a friendly agreement.

You could then 'innocently' suggest that he fits a sub-meter (at his own expense) in your house and pays you for the kWh used by his business, together with half of the standing charges.  Knowing the ongoing amounts recorded by the sub-meter would then allow you to get a good idea of past consumption and to request appropriate repayment.

The attraction of this approach is that it puts the ball in the landlord's court and offers a face-saving, non-confrontational way out for both parties.  You'll suspect that he's knowingly been fiddling it, he'll suspect that you've deliberately cut his power off, but with goodwill from both sides it can all proceed with sweetness and light.

If he doesn't play ball and the gloves come off then at least you'll have the satisfaction being seen to have been reasonable, and this should help you if a dispute has to go to some sort of arbitration.

FreeBear

Presumably, you are on a domestic tariff ?

The LL should be on a business tariff for his energy, which is pretty steep at the moment and not subject to any OFGEM cap. He could find himself in some expensive trouble should the energy supplier find out....

What is your current annual electricity usage (in KWh) according to your bills ?