Brother wants £75K from my Dad to pay off debts - Dad recently widowed and we are tenants in common

xylophone

Yes my parents were tenants in common.

Yes she left interest to myself and my brother at 25% and 50% to my father

Your mother and father were tenants-in-common.

Each of them had a beneficial interest in 50% of the value of the property.

Did your mother's will leave half of her beneficial interest to your father (such that he is now the beneficial owner of 75% of the property while you and your brother are the beneficial owners of 12.5% each)?

What exactly does the will say in respect of the property?

xylophone

I am not an expert on these matters, but usually trying to put assets out of reach of the local council does not work .If the council suspects you have done this ( however it is done ) they will just not pay, as it will be seen  as deliberate deprivation of assets

The OP's late mother was an equal T-I-C and therefore the beneficial owner of 50% of the property.

There is no question of DoA in the circumstances where she either bequeathed her interest in the property to her  widower  in life interest trust or to her widower and her offspring in whatever proportion she wished.

In such circumstances, were the widower to need means tested care, only his beneficial interest could be taken into account in the means test.

Albermarle

In such circumstances, were the widower to need means tested care, only his beneficial interest could be taken into account in the means test.

Yes I understood that but from the OP's statement below, he seemed to indicate that somehow the arrangements would protect his Fathers assets/50% share of the house from care costs., which they will not as you rightly say .

These will were set up to protect both parents having there estate dwindled away by care costs

JackSprout

Albermarle said:

These will were set up to protect both parents having there estate dwindled away by care costs, however I now see there is some form of protection also.

I am not an expert on these matters, but usually trying to put assets out of reach of the local council does not work .If the council suspects you have done this ( however it is done ) they will just not pay, as it will be seen  as deliberate deprivation of assets .

Also most people with money/assets prefer to pay for themselves anyway , to get a better standard of care . Not much point having a £750K house and then going into the cheapest council funded care home in the area. Would you like that for him?

My understanding is Dad can do what he wants with the money and yes I agree if he want to sell up and have a really loverly care home then I believe he should do that, but he does have 3 grandchildren (my brother doesnt have children) so he may decide to leave them some money. But that is totaly up to him, hes not that great at money my Mum always dealt with it so I have to try and give him the options including bailing my brother out,

JackSprout

xylophone said:

Yes my parents were tenants in common.

Yes she left interest to myself and my brother at 25% and 50% to my father

Your mother and father were tenants-in-common.

Each of them had a beneficial interest in 50% of the value of the property.

Did your mother's will leave half of her beneficial interest to your father (such that he is now the beneficial owner of 75% of the property while you and your brother are the beneficial owners of 12.5% each)?

What exactly does the will say in respect of the property?

Subject as above the Property Trustees shall hold the capital and income of the Trust Fund for my son BOB and my son BILL which shall be held by them or the survivor of them in equal shares and if either of them fail to obtain a vested interest leaving issue who survive me then such issue shall take by subsitituion such failed share and if there shall be more than one of such issue they shall take in equal shares per stirpes.

MallyGirl

It won't be up to him if he needs care and can't afford it as he gave his money away. It is called deprivation of assets.

Albermarle

JackSprout said:

Albermarle said:

These will were set up to protect both parents having there estate dwindled away by care costs, however I now see there is some form of protection also.

I am not an expert on these matters, but usually trying to put assets out of reach of the local council does not work .If the council suspects you have done this ( however it is done ) they will just not pay, as it will be seen  as deliberate deprivation of assets .

Also most people with money/assets prefer to pay for themselves anyway , to get a better standard of care . Not much point having a £750K house and then going into the cheapest council funded care home in the area. Would you like that for him?

My understanding is Dad can do what he wants with the money and yes I agree if he want to sell up and have a really loverly care home then I believe he should do that, but he does have 3 grandchildren (my brother doesnt have children) so he may decide to leave them some money. But that is totaly up to him, hes not that great at money my Mum always dealt with it so I have to try and give him the options including bailing my brother out,

Even if he does not want to sell up , if the council has incurred substantial care costs, they will take the money out of his estate when he dies 

JackSprout

You guys do know about the £86K care cap right, I know thats only for care and not the accomadation but there is a contribution of £200 on that, and Dads pension would go some way to contribute towards his accomadation as well or am I being naive?

elsien

The care cap isn’t in place yet. It can still be backtracked on. And it only applies to assessed eligible needs. I’m foreseeing some needs going into the not eligible category and still needing paying for. 

xylophone

Subject as above the Property Trustees shall hold the capital and income of the Trust Fund for my son BOB and my son BILL which shall be held by them or the survivor of them in equal shares 

I don't quite follow.

What "Trust Fund"?

Was your mother's only asset her beneficial interest in the property or were there cash/share assets as well?

What exactly does the will say in respect of the gift of her interest in the property?