Napier Parking - Aggressive Letter

95Rollers

RaptorBlue said:

@95Rollers your last point is crucial, its obvious why, they want you to dispose of any evidence that you parked, especially if you used old school money as opposed to a card. They then say in an email that proof after the event isnt good enough anyway (which im not sure is legal or just there own T&Cs) but its clear they want you to dispose of any proof and then 2-3 weeks later hit you with a PCN out the blue....as you say something else to bring up in any court hearing as something thats not transparent nor fair.

In that sense they have contradicted themselves! They have dumped their "proof" on you 3 weeks after the event (i.e those angled shots) when you would have no idea there was ever a problem because they failed to notify you at the event.  Why did they not issue a PCN on your windshield at the time or leave a sneaky note if they were too much of a coward to challenge you directly on this issue - which suggests it wasn't at the forefront of their minds at the time.  It takes way longer to do all those photos than it does to leave a note telling you they will be taxing you in the post!  All questions that need to be put to the Judge because they are failing to account to you for their shady behaviour!

They have totally acted in a non-transparent, sneaky and unfair way. 

Your right that This isn't a legal term - but their own language!   In criminal and civil cases evidence is more often than not gathered after events! I would certainly mention that in the statement - it shows they are trying to be judge, jury and execution because they are so desperate to tax you for £160 with no proof whatsoever!

They could have even waited by the car and asked you to produce the ticket - did the ticket come with an adhesive back and does it state where in the car you must display as I've seen tickets (with sticky backs) affixed to drivers/ passengers windows or rear parcel shelf or even on the top of the steering column

RaptorBlue

@Snakes_Belly excatly, once you throw away a ticket unless youve paid online via an app you have zero proof which with them not giving a note on the windscreen youd natural dispose of.

@95Rollers youre spot on with everything you say and if it goes to court thats what i would put in my posiition ststment. That they gave me no indication on the day, that the photos are taken to an "advantagious" angel and that due to there being no trail of payment they can act as Judge and jury and demand payment knowing you have no physical proof...and even then apparently after the event is not acceptible to them!

Nor sure about the sticky back, Ill ask my son but most these days dont, they are just print outs on paper with no instructions of what to do, merley a time and date. this machine seemd to only take cash and also not allow you to put in the car reg. if he could have put that in or paid via card then you have a trail, the fact that they dont offer either shows this is purely a scam and not to do with providing a way to track a payment in case there are issues.

As you say all these points can be in my defense if needed, theyll argue simply no ticket = fine....but as always nothing is that simple no matter how much they want it to be.

95Rollers

Despite all their cries, assertions and fingerpointing - they have as much proof that you didn't have a ticket as you've got proof saying you have!  

They will have to account for why they didn't ticket you or leave you a note or confront you at the time. Which they can't do and supports the theory that they are predatory and unreasonable. 
 
I would put something to them of this nature stating that these are all questions that need answering and behaviour that needs to be justified. I would also check where this behaviour/ ticketiblng MO fits in with the IPCs code of practice. The Judge would like to hear this!!! Because I do!

I would do another SAR and would request a witness statement from the parking attendant and his rationale for not leaving q PCN or notice of an incoming PCN/ NTK at the scene.  They might try and backtrack by lying saying someone took it, but then why was it not included in the first SAR reply!

RaptorBlue

@95Rollers Some very good points which I wiuld certainly like to know about and Im sure a Judge would reasonibly ask them. They would assert that there proof is the photos which show np ticket displayed, but my counter would be that any phot they present can simply show or not show what they wish, I could take a set of photos and another person do the same and show completly different things, that is beyond dispute.

As they have only that then its down to a Judge to either go with this singular proof or that a ticket was bought but without a way to show that via any records and that the ticket was thrown after use its hard to prove as you say that a ticket was not bought as bought.

I will certainly try another SAR as you suggest and request a statment from the attending person, I am guessing it wont come and that they will say that they dont issue paper tickets at the scene, as apparently is legal (I did search this) however not doing so puts teh driver at a disadvanateg as they could and in this case have thrown the ticket that was bought and displayed.

I would hope that questioning the photos and lack of paper PCN on the day puts enough doubr in the Judges mind that this is a preditory company interested in squezzing money from people, no more than that, its almost legalised extorsion.

If I get a reasonible Judge that may be enough for them to dismiss the case, in my mind to find for them they need much more than the SAR shows they have.

Herzlos

RaptorBlue said:

I could easily show a judge, I put a bit of paper of the dash, take loads of shots but none show it...then take one shot that can clearly show it, its not hard and certainly is not beyond what these parking companies do...i would hope a Judge would at least consider that in some cases the camera does lie!

If you end off defending it in person, and bring the same car along, then you can always suggest you take the judge to the car and show how an unscrupulous parking company could take photos to make it look like there's no ticket. You can then use that to reinforce how suspicious it is that the parking company didn't provide any of the photos that'd make it clear.

RaptorBlue

@Herzlos thats an interesting idea, i would be in the same car, its mine, weather a Judge would do that is another case, but my point would be that I could place a ticket and take photos myself from 10 places that dont show it and one that does, obviously Napier would say I put the paper in after so a "live" demo would be best, i think at that point the BW solicitor would proply need a new pair on underwear!

Le_Kirk

RaptorBlue said:

I will certainly try another SAR as you suggest and request a statment from the attending person, I am guessing it wont come and that they will say that they dont issue paper tickets at the scene, as apparently is legal (I did search this) however not doing so puts teh driver at a disadvanateg as they could and in this case have thrown the ticket that was bought and displayed.

Be careful submitting another SAR because they will be within their rights to charge for it if you are asking for the same data about yourself that they have already supplied.  If they have failed to supply something and you know this, that is a different matter and you submit it as a follow up.

RaptorBlue

Hi @Le_Kirk I will give it a go, if they want to charge i will just refuse but submit that in any court papers to show that they are being unhelpful and see what the Judge says, they may ask for the same info to be given in court, but worth a try.

Jenni_D

If there was no windscreen PCN (and I assume the PPC aren't currently alleging that there was), and this was only an NTK PCN (served in time [amongst other measures] to make the keeper liable under PoFA) ... is there not something in the new Parking CoP or in the IAS CoP that talks about an operative taking photos but only an NTK being issued? Isn't/wasn't this to be banned?

RaptorBlue

Hi @Jenni_D there was nothing on the windscreen, I got something in the post 2-3 weeks l;ater onforming me, that was the first contact. They havent said there was anything attastched to the windscreen as they didnt produce it or show it on any photos so assuming thats not going to be something they bring up.

If you or anyone can find any new regulations saying that this practice has been banned in terms of nothing left on the windscreen but photos taken then that would be helpful for sure.