Employee rights and advice

sinofrench26

So if my current manager is off sick and the previous manager (different company but must still have links with current company), will give me a reference and stated if it is a public role then they will mention my sickness and escalation but don’t know the details. (They were told by someone involved in my grievance in current company).   If it’s private, then they won’t mention it??  I have lots of colleagues who will give me a reference but as it sounds I need a manager for first reference. 

[Deleted User]

Direct references to HR.

If the former manager is content to provide a testimonial then point HR in his direction.

That aside why aren't you progressing your grievance to the next level as your employer sound out of time at stage 1?

sinofrench26

arctic_ghost said:

Direct references to HR.

If the former manager is content to provide a testimonial then point HR in his direction.

That aside why aren't you progressing your grievance to the next level as your employer sound out of time at stage 1?

Point HR in their direction?  They give a testimonial and new employer get it through HR?  

I handed in a written grievance and it was acknowledged end December.  Mid January they said they are still to find an independent person to chair it.  It’s now March.  I also think they have delayed it to avoid employment tribunal as I only have less than 2 weeks now to pursue 

[Deleted User]

Proceed to next stage of grievance and submit ET1 as time is of the essence.

Don't fart about waiting for them to find a chair, they're out of time, you move to next level, their issue.

You need to start boxing clever or you'll get stitched up like a kipper.

Undervalued

sinofrench26 said:

arctic_ghost said:

Direct references to HR.

If the former manager is content to provide a testimonial then point HR in his direction.

That aside why aren't you progressing your grievance to the next level as your employer sound out of time at stage 1?

Point HR in their direction?  They give a testimonial and new employer get it through HR?  

I handed in a written grievance and it was acknowledged end December.  Mid January they said they are still to find an independent person to chair it.  It’s now March.  I also think they have delayed it to avoid employment tribunal as I only have less than 2 weeks now to pursue 

Have you had proper legal advice that you have valid and worthwhile claim to take to an Employment Tribunal?

By proper legal advice I mean a solicitor, not ACAS who are a neutral arbitration service and do not provide legal advice.

sinofrench26

Jillanddy said:

sinofrench26 said:

So if my current manager is off sick and the previous manager (different company but must still have links with current company), will give me a reference and stated if it is a public role then they will mention my sickness and escalation but don’t know the details. (They were told by someone involved in my grievance in current company).   If it’s private, then they won’t mention it??  I have lots of colleagues who will give me a reference but as it sounds I need a manager for first reference. 

I think this is getting rather convoluted. The basic position is that most employers require at least two references, one of which has to be an official reference from the current employer. What they will accept as an official reference from the employer is up to them, but that normally means a line manager (or their seniors) or HR. What your current employers policy is about who writes references is also up to them. For example, in my public sector employer, references are written by line managers and never by HR. If I couldn't write a reference, then it would go up to my line manager to write. But none of us can tell you what the current employers position is; nor what the potential employer would accept. What would be very unusual would be for a potential employer to accept an employers reference from someone no longer working there, or from a colleague. In those cases they would normally be deemed personal or character references. For someone to purport to provide an official employers reference without the authority to do so could get them into trouble - and if found out could get you dismissed. I know you aren't trying to be dishonest about this, but getting someone who isn't authorised to write an employers reference is what some people do to hide the truth about their employment. Basically, it's a lie, and starting a relationship with a lie never goes down well. 

If there is a potential employer that you are specifically considering, you could ask them what would be acceptable to them. Or ask your current employer who to put down. 

This may be a bit "off the wall" as a suggestion, but I offer it for consideration - without making any assumptions about the rights and wrongs here on either side, have you considered that your manager might actually give you a glowing reference just to get rid of you? I have certainly seen that happen on many occasions. That requirement to give a truthful reference can cut both ways. It's easy to damn with the right words. It's also easy to praise without ever being quite pinned down as to what it means.

Finally, and I appreciate that you may not want to provide this information, but there is obviously something that you don't want a potential employer to know. Because you are obviously worried that if the former manager writes an official employers reference (which they really shouldn't do) they have said that they have to mention whatever it is. Setting aside how they found out (which you will never prove), and whether they should have known or not, and who is in the right, have you considered that whatever it is that you don't want the potential employer to know may not be a big deal? Could you be overthinking the impact it would have?

Thank you and I appreciate your time on this. My concern is that I am being discriminated because I put in a grievance after years of being disadvantaged with reasonable adjustments not being provided since 2018.  

I had a very good manager for years who was supportive but is now different after leaving months before the grievance was submitted is not happy that I did.  Your right as they are not part of the company anymore then I shouldn’t be seeking their reference.

The only other reference I can ask is the deputy head above the current manager who is involved in the grievance.  But I am concerned as they could have shared the grievance information.  I have never met them in person and only via. email.  Can they still give me a reference in that sense? 

@ undervalued.  I have legal employment solicitor calling me next week about the merit of my case. 

@articghost what is a ET1?

MalMonroe

Hi, I think you definitely need to go back to Acas.

They are supposed to help you with all aspects of employment. And if anyone wants to take a case to a Tribunal they have to contact them anyway. As per this link -

https://www.acas.org.uk/making-a-claim-to-an-employment-tribunal

Have you completed any form at all? Because you could do that over the weekend and send it to Acas (they say it only takes 10 minutes). If Acas feel there is no merit in your case, they won't want to take it any further. You don't need a solicitor to tell you that. But if they do think it has merit, they will contact you and let you know. As Jillanddy says, the clock is really ticking now. 

Here's the form you need - https://tell.acas.org.uk/apply-for-a-certificate

If you wait until next week to speak to a solicitor, you won't have the time to prepare a substantial case but it will be good to speak to one because you will need legal advice whatever happens. Acas can tell you about the merits of the case.

Just because they failed to achieve an early reconciliation does not mean that Acas' involvement is over. I'm surprised that they didn't tell you that in the first instance. I am also very surprised that they did not allocate a personal adviser to you because they did in my case (which was settled a couple of weeks before the court date). 

Good luck with everything. 

sinofrench26

Jillanddy said:

MalMonroe sa

Hi, I think you definitely need to go back to Acas.

They are supposed to help you with all aspects of employment. And if anyone wants to take a case to a Tribunal they have to contact them anyway. As per this link -

https://www.acas.org.uk/making-a-claim-to-an-employment-tribunal

Have you completed any form at all? Because you could do that over the weekend and send it to Acas (they say it only takes 10 minutes). If Acas feel there is no merit in your case, they won't want to take it any further. You don't need a solicitor to tell you that. But if they do think it has merit, they will contact you and let you know. As Jillanddy says, the clock is really ticking now. 

Here's the form you need - https://tell.acas.org.uk/apply-for-a-certificate

If you wait until next week to speak to a solicitor, you won't have the time to prepare a substantial case but it will be good to speak to one because you will need legal advice whatever happens. Acas can tell you about the merits of the case.

Just because they failed to achieve an early reconciliation does not mean that Acas' involvement is over. I'm surprised that they didn't tell you that in the first instance. I am also very surprised that they did not allocate a personal adviser to you because they did in my case (which was settled a couple of weeks before the court date). 

Good luck with everything. 

I'm sorry, but referring back to another thread,  there is some poor advice on here at times.  ACAS are not supposed to provide you with help on all aspects of employment. They are supposed to provide you with neutral and impartial advice based on the version of facts that you tell them. If you are very lucky,  that advice might even be accurate,  but it often isn't. 

ACAS definitely can't tell you about the merits of your case,  because if they did they'd be unable to follow their own rules - they do not provide legal advice,  never mind a legal assessment. 

And since you have not lodged a claim yet,  then you won't get a case officer - they aren't personal advisors. And they DO NOT provide you with legal advice.  

The clock certainly is ticking, but if you don't have a union then you need proper legal advice  which is something ACAS do not provide to anyone.  Despite repeated claims in some quarters that they do.  

Thats correct, ACAs dont tell me the merits of my case and it has to be 51% or more for it to be worthwhile.  I have already lodged a claim and received infomration from solicitors through my home insurance that they will be feeding back on the merit of my case tomorrow.  I have a union but it appears that they are innudated that they dont even read the information such as my grievance that the advice I am getting is not fully thought about. 

sinofrench26

Jillanddy said:

An ET1 is the form that initiates an employment tribunal claim. I am somewhat concerned that you are only getting a solicitors opinion a week before the deadline. My union, for example, had legal advice obtained in January, and my deadline wouldn't even have the clock ticking on it yet as the formal resolution hasn't been made (although the chief officer has told me and the union what it is to make sure we agree to it). Whilst ET1's aren't terribly hard to prepare, I wouldn't want to be rushing one at the last minute - and you are past the last minute in my mind if you only have two weeks to go. 

I already have filled out one ready.

sinofrench26

Jillanddy said:

I am maybe missing something here, but if your former manager was supportive then they would have made the adjustments!

Looking back yes your right and there are alot of staff feeling resentment as they were not around as covering a deputy head position as well.

I am glad it is not just me that feels that way and yes perhaps that is why.  thank you.

I understand and yes you would hope so.  I am probably going to ask my current manager.  He doesnt understand my role unfortunately.  May I ask if he stated I was off sick on one episode due to the discrimination due to my disability and put in a grievnance and he mentions it in my reference as a concern is that not discrimination in itself?