Second hand car with fault!

Ath_Wat

ThumbRemote said:

bris said:

To be fair you are buying a car on clearance at whats probably an older, cheaper car.

You should have had someone else look over the car for you or got the AA or RAC to check it.

The age and mileage of the car is also important because wear and tear on these cars is expected and not covered with second hand cars,

You statutory rights can't be denied but having any in this case is debatable.

Of course you have statutory rights. 

Having them and them being remotely relevant to a particular case are hardly the same thing.

Sebi_895

The damn cheek of some dealers, really narks me that kind of behaviour! To think they would want to try and score some points for customer loyalty here! As ThumbRemote said, get it fixed by a local garage (or better still get on the web and search for that fault, you'll find loads of posts on how to fix it if you desire) 
Then, get on social media and tell everyone to avoid that dealership - you may not win that repair but you can definitely tarnish the name! Oh and let me know who/where they are so I can avoid them as well!

kaMelo

The thing is as a "Trade Sale" what statutory rights does a buyer have?
It's essentially "here is the car, this is the price, take it or leave it"

Grumpy_chap

Mark1317 said:

The car is a 2007 Renault Scenic with 70,000 on the clock.

I accept wear and tear, which is why I'm not bothered about the dent over the wheel arch.

I've spoken to CAB and they say that all settings should function on the air blower and for the dealer to say it's a luxury is incorrect.

I would suggest that a faulty resistor on the air blower is a wear and tear part in a 15 yo car.  Same thing went on our Fiesta last year, about a £20 part online or £50 from Ford and about half hour to fix.

I would also suggest that CAB were telling you what you want to hear.

kaMelo said:

The thing is as a "Trade Sale" what statutory rights does a buyer have?
It's essentially "here is the car, this is the price, take it or leave it"

That is not correct, a consumer buying from a Dealer has all the same statutory rights whether buying a 15 yo car or a brand new car.  It is just that those rights are tempered (in both cases) for reasonable expectations and that required quality threshold will vary between the 15 yo car and the brand new car:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl
Satisfactory quality  Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

pinkshoes

Mark1317 said:

The car is a 2007 Renault Scenic with 70,000 on the clock.

I accept wear and tear, which is why I'm not bothered about the dent over the wheel arch.

At what point do you relinquish your statutory rights?

I looked at the price of other similar vehicles, and it wasn't the most expensive, it also wasn't the cheapest.  Most on Auto Trader come with a 3 month warranty.  The ones I could find at the time did.

I've spoken to CAB and they say that all settings should function on the air blower and for the dealer to say it's a luxury is incorrect.

It's also the fact they said they'd be happy to sell me a brand new car at any point!  Something around £30k

@Mark1317 As we are talking about a 15 year old car with 70,00 miles on the clock, then the air blowers only working at high speed is a really common problem and counts as wear and tear on an old car.

It's not "not working", but just works only at the top speed. So when you declined to look at the inside of the car and asked the salesman if everything worked, then what he said was correct. 

Just order the part and fix it yourself:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sUHDpBkFk8

kaMelo

Grumpy_chap said:

kaMelo said:

The thing is as a "Trade Sale" what statutory rights does a buyer have?
It's essentially "here is the car, this is the price, take it or leave it"

That is not correct, a consumer buying from a Dealer has all the same statutory rights whether buying a 15 yo car or a brand new car.  It is just that those rights are tempered (in both cases) for reasonable expectations and that required quality t

would suggest that a faulty resistor on the air blower is a wear and tear part in a 15 yo car.  Same thing went on our Fiesta last year, about a £20 part online or £50 from Ford and about half hour to fix.

I would also suggest that CAB were telling you what you want to hear.
hreshold will vary between the 15 yo car and the brand new car:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl
Satisfactory quality  Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

This is where I disagree, these cars are clearly marketed as trade rather than retail sales and, I would imagine, is clearly documented as "Trade Sale" on any invoice. Hence my question, as a trade sale what "consumer rights" does one have. In my eyes none as you didn't buy as a consumer.

Despite that, I agree it's a well known fault and easy fix. 

MarvinDay

kaMelo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

kaMelo said:

The thing is as a "Trade Sale" what statutory rights does a buyer have?
It's essentially "here is the car, this is the price, take it or leave it"

That is not correct, a consumer buying from a Dealer has all the same statutory rights whether buying a 15 yo car or a brand new car.  It is just that those rights are tempered (in both cases) for reasonable expectations and that required quality t

would suggest that a faulty resistor on the air blower is a wear and tear part in a 15 yo car.  Same thing went on our Fiesta last year, about a £20 part online or £50 from Ford and about half hour to fix.

I would also suggest that CAB were telling you what you want to hear.
hreshold will vary between the 15 yo car and the brand new car:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl
Satisfactory quality  Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

This is where I disagree, these cars are clearly marketed as trade rather than retail sales and, I would imagine, is clearly documented as "Trade Sale" on any invoice. Hence my question, as a trade sale what "consumer rights" does one have. In my eyes none as you didn't buy as a consumer.

Despite that, I agree it's a well known fault and easy fix. 

The legal definition of a consumer under the Consumer Rights act is:

an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.

so if the OP didn't purchase the car for using in their business, it doesn't matter one bit what the advert of receipt stated and It would be a business to consumer sale and not a trade sale.
Simply writing something on a receipt doesn't make it legal or enforceable.

clearancer

I'd actually viewed the car externally a week prior, however I suffer from severe anxiety and won't get inside a vehicle unless I am certain that no one else has been inside.  On this basis, I had to take the salesman's word

You had plenty of opportunity to check the car. Why didn’t you take a non-anxious mate? Why didn’t you ask them to isolate the car for three days before you paid for it? Get it fixed and stop complaining.

Grumpy_chap

kaMelo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

kaMelo said:

The thing is as a "Trade Sale" what statutory rights does a buyer have?
It's essentially "here is the car, this is the price, take it or leave it"

That is not correct, a consumer buying from a Dealer has all the same statutory rights whether buying a 15 yo car or a brand new car.  It is just that those rights are tempered (in both cases) for reasonable expectations and that required quality t

would suggest that a faulty resistor on the air blower is a wear and tear part in a 15 yo car.  Same thing went on our Fiesta last year, about a £20 part online or £50 from Ford and about half hour to fix.

I would also suggest that CAB were telling you what you want to hear.
hreshold will vary between the 15 yo car and the brand new car:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl
Satisfactory quality  Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

This is where I disagree, these cars are clearly marketed as trade rather than retail sales and, I would imagine, is clearly documented as "Trade Sale" on any invoice. Hence my question, as a trade sale what "consumer rights" does one have. In my eyes none as you didn't buy as a consumer.

Despite that, I agree it's a well known fault and easy fix. 

You can disagree all you like.
You are also wholly incorrect.

It is a matter of fact whether the seller is an individual or a business (Dealer / Trader).
It is a matter of fact whether the buyer is an individual (Consumer) or a business.
When the seller is a business and the buyer is an individual, then it is a b2c transaction and the consumer rights apply.

There can be some grey areas in determining the status of the parties - a trader posing as individual seller or a sole-trader buyer.  Neither of those scenarios appear relevant in this case.

"Trade Sale" is a meaningless phrase that makes no difference as to whether the transaction is b2c or b2b.

If what you suggest was correct, then every seller of everything would simply write "trade sale" on every invoice and consumer rights would cease to exist pretty much entirely.

boobyd

clearancer said:

I'd actually viewed the car externally a week prior, however I suffer from severe anxiety and won't get inside a vehicle unless I am certain that no one else has been inside.  On this basis, I had to take the salesman's word

You had plenty of opportunity to check the car. Why didn’t you take a non-anxious mate? Why didn’t you ask them to isolate the car for three days before you paid for it? Get it fixed and stop complaining.

I'd actually be more worried about 15 years of sprog mobile use and what gets on seats/surfaces than covid.!