Financial checks and ability to pay. Is it worth taking this sole trader to court?

Tunstallstoven

Hi all

Please could anyone help me with a general question if possible? We might be looking to bring a case to the small claims court against a plumber due to the poor standard of work.

We've been speaking to the legal cover through our home insurance who have made some basic checks on his finances. They've said that as he doesn't own property and his company isn't registered with Companies House (he's a sole trader), he doesn't fulfil their/the insurer's criteria and as a result they can't help us take the case to court as they could not enforce payment.

However, whilst I can understand their position, what I wanted to know is... If we take him to the small claims court without their support and won, and he refused to pay, would it not be enforceable as he has no demonstrable assets? Or would the judge take into consideration his income/personal bank account/tools/van etc?

Whilst trying to sort matters with him directly, he has blatantly lied about some things. We fear that even if he did have assets, or money in a personal bank account, he would do whatever he could to move these or make them unavailable in some way. Do the courts/enforcers see through these kinds of things? Or, if he wants to "plead poverty" is that something quite easily achieved?

We're at our wits end trying to decide what to do! Any advice or pointers to stuff to read on the subject would be massively appreciated.

Many thanks

(PS - we noticed this evening that he has his put his UTR number on his estimates and invoices. As we've only just realised we've not yet told the legal firm, but will do so in the morning. Could this UTR number help in any way?)

Aylesbury_Duck

What would you take him to court for?  In your other thread you said you haven't paid him anything.  Withholding payment until the problems are resolved should make small claims action unnecessary.

Tunstallstoven

Hi @Aylesbury_Duck

Aylesbury_Duck said:

What would you take him to court for?  In your other thread you said you haven't paid him anything. 

Sorry for any confusion.  It's more of a hypothetical question at this stage.  We're trying to weigh up whether to pay and instigate action against him, or not pay and let him take action against us.  How the enforcement side of it works - and how easy it would be for him to not pay, claim to have no assets, etc - feels like an important factor in deciding.  So I guess the questions should have been prefixed with a "If we pay him the money, (...is it worth taking this sole trader to court?)" etc.  

Aylesbury_Duck said:

What would you take him to court for?  In your other thread you said you haven't paid him anything.  Withholding payment until the problems are resolved should make small claims action unnecessary.

That would be great if so.  The trouble is we are struggling to agree on anything, and he is threatening court action for non-payment.  

Many thanks for your help

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Would be better to stick to the one thread OP  

But why would you pay? Please see my reply on the other thread, the plumber either fixes the problems or you have the right to a price reduction. 

If he doesn't like you reducing the price (by not paying the full amount) then he has to take you to court.

I think it would be madness to pay in full at this stage but you do need to follow the correct steps: allow repeat performance, if that fails get several quotes for bringing job up to scratch, then specifically tell the plumber you are entitled to a price reduction as they have failed to reperform the service in accordance with the contract and pay amount due minus cost of sorting issues. 

It will take a long time to go through small claims which is not good for you and from his side he should have fixed the problems by then or won't have a case. 

DB1904

Tunstallstoven said:

Hi @Aylesbury_Duck

Aylesbury_Duck said:

What would you take him to court for?  In your other thread you said you haven't paid him anything. 

Sorry for any confusion.  It's more of a hypothetical question at this stage.  We're trying to weigh up whether to pay and instigate action against him, or not pay and let him take action against us.  How the enforcement side of it works - and how easy it would be for him to not pay, claim to have no assets, etc - feels like an important factor in deciding.  So I guess the questions should have been prefixed with a "If we pay him the money, (...is it worth taking this sole trader to court?)" etc.  

Aylesbury_Duck said:

What would you take him to court for?  In your other thread you said you haven't paid him anything.  Withholding payment until the problems are resolved should make small claims action unnecessary.

That would be great if so.  The trouble is we are struggling to agree on anything, and he is threatening court action for non-payment.  

Many thanks for your help

Hypothetically, if he hasn't got it you can't make him pay it.

His van may be on finance and you can't take the tools of his trade. 

Tunstallstoven

I'm sorry.  I tried to be helpful in posting two separate threads but can see now how that is actually quite unhelpful.  I will request that this email be locked if possible (but left open to be viewable) and the discussions continue over on the other thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6342858/financial-checks-and-ability-to-pay-is-it-worth-taking-this-sole-trader-to-court#latest

Sorry for the inconvenience 
 

Tunstallstoven

If anyone moderator could lock this thread (but keep it visible) as per my last post, that would be a massive help.  Sorry to be a pain.  

If I need to do something else to make that request to admin/mods, please let me know how to go about it and I'll get right on it!  

Many thanks

Tunstallstoven

Perhaps best to delete this thread if at all possible please?  So that it does not conflict with the other one.  

Many thanks