To Pay or not to pay? When is a contract breached? And how to proceed in this case?

powerful_Rogue

What information did they provide you regarding your right to cancel your contract via durable means?

Tunstallstoven

Hi @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head  

Many thanks for taking the time to write that response.  Much appreciated.  And sorry for the delay in replying.  What you said makes sense RE not paying the bill in full, thank you.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

....some kind of independent assessment, as you mentioned, might be wise to show the work really doesn't meet acceptable standards. 

The only formal independent assessment we could find was going to cost over £1000 all in.  Not ideal!  We did get a lot of feedback from a pro tilers forum, where posters had no allegiance or reasons to say anything other than what they thought.  How much weight would that have in court?  Aside from that, the only other option seems to be asking local tilers, but so far on the whole they’ve been reluctant to get involved in writing reports.  And you bring up whether they would be classed as “independent” anyway.  I’m not sure how that’s judged.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

It's also worth noting the manufacturer may specify certain things but they may not be a necessity.

Fair point and noted, thanks.  In some cases the manufacturers have said things like “not fit for purpose”.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

if the plumber went to court the case will be viewed from a non-bias position meaning you'd need to justify your position suitably.  

That’s a hard one to evaluate.  We feel our evidence is strong, but that’s more from a common sense standpoint than that of a courtroom.  Plus, we’ve no idea what “evidence” he might conjure up to support his view.  One thing we do know is that he lies and is quite tricksy, which has made the whole thing a lot harder.     
Regarding the tiling, it’s problematic in several ways.  The overall standard is poor – things like sloppy cuts, how square and plumb the tiles are, etc.  There were several responses on the tilers forum and they all say it was a “DIY standard” job and needs to be redone from scratch.  But aside from the aesthetics, there are other practical/technical problems too.  I’ve no idea if the evidence we have from the manufacturers and the opinions on the tilers forum would be enough?  There are also elements of the work that do not comply with British Standards, and in some cases Building Regs.   

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

If you calculate the cost of resolving the issues is less than £3100 I'd pay the plumber the difference asap. 

Ok, thanks – that’s good to know.  We definitely feel there is some money to be paid, so we’ll do some calcs and arrange payment for as soon as possible.  Do we just make the payment and let him know in an email, rather than ask/discuss it?  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

personally I would tell the plumber to come and fix both the tiles and plumbing issues 

Regarding him returning for repeat performance...  Are we best off to allow the plumber to bring the same tiler back even though we’ve since found out (from the plumber!) that he’s actually more of a handyman?  We had a chat with the CAB the other day, and they said that we could potentially argue loss of faith in the trader.  It’s certainly how we feel, but we can’t find out anything more about this.  And so we’re a bit baffled by the whole question of whether offering a second repeat performance chance is the right thing to do.  We do want to do the right thing legally though.  

powerful_Rogue said:

What information did they provide you regarding your right to cancel your contract via durable means?

Hi @powerful_Rogue  None as far as I know.  Should they have done?  But I’m not 100% sure I understand the question to be honest!   Thank you for your reply.

ohdarn

Sorry I can't help much but we're likely going to have a similar but smaller issue with a roofer.

I get the idea of letting them attempt to rectify the mistake if it's something small or accidental but I don't agree with it if it's down to incompetence.

If you went for an operation and the surgeon lopped off a leg instead of taking out your appendix, would you be happy letting the same surgeon have another crack at it?

Tunstallstoven

Hi @ohdarn

I certainly agree with your sentiment and the logic of it.  It's nice to be on the same page with you   Unfortunately though what really matters is what our obligations are with the law, when and how "loss of faith" becomes applicable, etc.  

The best of luck with your situation and I hope you manage to resolve it.