A fool and his money?

Ergates

Silvertabby said:

Ergates said:

sand_hun said:

The thing that disappoints me about this is that how can someone in good conscience go about giving nutritional advice that impacts the way someone might live their life? While the word 'allergic' wasn't specifically used, I was told to avoid yeast extract entirely (bakers yeast, not brewers) and to cut down on coffee, MSG & artificial sweeteners.

TBH I took the whole thing with a pinch of salt anyway. Guess I'll wait for my skin/blood tests and see what comes up.

Partly because a lot of the time they actually believe the nonsense they're peddling.

Partly because most* of the time the nonsense they're peddling isn't *actively* harmful - whilst it won't help you it won't hurt you either. Cutting down on coffee, MSG and sweeteners and not eating bread isn't going to kill you.  It's probably not going to help you, but it's not actively bad advice either.  Similarly, homeopathic remedies won't help you at all, but they're also not bad for you as they're literally just water dripped onto sugar pills.

The main risk with them (other than being a waste of money) is that they can dissuade people from seeking/heeding actual medical advice.  For an extreme case see Steve Jobs - he died from a cancer that would have been medically treatable if he'd not sought to use alternative therapies until it was too late.  Or all the people dying from covid after trying to use horse dewormer as a treatment.

I would also argue that a side effect of mainstream acceptance of pseudoscience (see Boots selling homeopathic "remedies") is that it undermines the very principals of evidence based reasoning.  When "All available evidence shows that these things don't work but I still believe in them" because a widely accepted viewpoint then anything is game.  See the modern resurgence of flat-earthers.

* Obviously there have been cases where alternative medicines *have* been directly harmful.

I have a friend who has always been into 'woo woo'.  When she was diagnosed with stage 1 cancer, she announced that she was going to cure herself by drinking herbal smoothies, from a recipe she found on an American website, and the power of positive thought.

Thankfully, she gave in to her husband's and my nagging, went through a course of conventional treatment, and is now in remission.  But she is adamant that her NHS treatment only worked because of the added power of her (mostly kale) smoothies.

This is pretty much exactly how Steve Jobs died - because being Steve Jobs he wasn't willing to listen to anyone else until it was too late.

sand_hun

Ath_Wat said:

What is a "feeling of well-being", anyway?  Sounds very anomalous.  The inability to identify the root cause of a lack of a "feeling of well-being" would suggest there was no root cause.  How many of the reviews claimed that any diagnosable or identifiable ailments have been cleared up?

In the case of this particular review it was alleged the nutritionist gave her instructions on how to clean her gut without any invasive treatment. Another claimed the nutritionist traced their ailment back to a Rubella injection.

soolin said:

I think many people genuinely benefit from these so called alternative practitioners, but not in the way they think. If you have been calling or visiting your GP and either been fobbed off and given vague future dates for tests then having someone that actually sits and listens to you and tells you that you are not imagining it makes you feel valued. I knew someone, had lots of vague illnesses and basically the GP used to hide when they saw her as she was becoming a nuisance , she went to someone alternative who decided she had all sorts of inbalances, told her to avoid some foods and drink certain things and she was a changed person. Her £30 a fortnight appointment where she sat and talked and described new aches and pains was worth every penny. 

This is a good point.

From my perspective, I was in a lot of discomfort and since my allergy appointment at the hospital will be months away, I tried to find a solution by paying privately. Obviously I now know that it was a complete waste of time and money and I feel pretty stupid.

Ergates

sand_hun said:

Ath_Wat said:

What is a "feeling of well-being", anyway?  Sounds very anomalous.  The inability to identify the root cause of a lack of a "feeling of well-being" would suggest there was no root cause.  How many of the reviews claimed that any diagnosable or identifiable ailments have been cleared up?

In the case of this particular review it was alleged the nutritionist gave her instructions on how to clean her gut without any invasive treatment. Another claimed the nutritionist traced their ailment back to a Rubella injection.

soolin said:

I think many people genuinely benefit from these so called alternative practitioners, but not in the way they think. If you have been calling or visiting your GP and either been fobbed off and given vague future dates for tests then having someone that actually sits and listens to you and tells you that you are not imagining it makes you feel valued. I knew someone, had lots of vague illnesses and basically the GP used to hide when they saw her as she was becoming a nuisance , she went to someone alternative who decided she had all sorts of inbalances, told her to avoid some foods and drink certain things and she was a changed person. Her £30 a fortnight appointment where she sat and talked and described new aches and pains was worth every penny. 

This is a good point.

From my perspective, I was in a lot of discomfort and since my allergy appointment at the hospital will be months away, I tried to find a solution by paying privately. Obviously I now know that it was a complete waste of time and money and I feel pretty stupid.

Don't feel stupid - a lot of these practitioners are very convincing (often because they actually believe what they're saying), their websites, brochures and offices often look very professional, and it's nice when someone listens to you and says they'll help you.

Manxman_in_exile

@sand_hun  Sorry to hear about your experience but I have a couple of tips that might be helpful depending on how you want to proceed.  By the way - I'm a retired NHS manager of 25 years experience.

First, I don't know whether the NHS employs "Nutritionists" - I certainly don't think it used to.  So far as I know, It isn't a legally regulated profession and it isn't a legally protected title.  I don't know what qualifications - if any - are needed to call yourself a Nutritionist.

The NHS employs "Dietitians" (or "Dieticians" - both spellings acceptable).  What you need to look for are Dieticians in private practice.  If you find one you should check that they are registered with the hcpc (health care professions council) which is the body responsible for regulating the profession.  Professions and protected titles | (hcpc-uk.org)

Second, if I were in your position and didn't want to wait on the NHS doing the tests, I'd find out what my local private hospital (if you have one locally) provides.  I note that Spire Healthcare seems to provide allergy testing (but other private healthcare providers are available)   Allergy Testing | Private Allergy Tests | Cost & Procedure | Spire Healthcare

There's no harm in contacting them (or eg BUPA) to see what they provide.  But you need to be absolutely certain with them what their fees include and exclude in terms of both (1) tests and (2) treatment, and make sure they know you will be self-funding as I assume you don't have health insurance.  And, of course, you need to know what you are willing - or can afford - to pay.

In the last 15 months I've had to resort to private consultations for two separate conditions that had worsened over lockdown with no probablity of seeing a NHS consultant on the horizon.  On both occasions I was more than happy with the outcome  and I thought it clinically more satisfactory than a NHS consultation.

The only other thing I'd say is: before committing to spending your own money privately, double-check with your GP that he or she considers that whatever tests they've referred you to the NHS for are really necessary, and they aren't just covering themselves.  (My personal experience has been that GPs will just refer you for tests whether really necessary or not).

[EDIT:  I note your GP referred you for Allergy testing.  Is there any particular reason why you consulted a nutritionist?  Did your GP indicate a food allergy, or is that just what you assumed it was?]

ElefantEd

Good reviews can easily be attributed towards a) confirmation bias b) placebo effect and c) regression to the mean - in particular for vague feelings of unwellness, the chances are that a few days later you will actually be feeling better whatever you do; and humans will typically give credit to the improvement to whatever they have done (or had done to them) whether there is a plausible mechanism or not.