International wire transfer using intermediary bank - missing money and a question about MT-103

Galno

Hi,

I'm after some guidance on an issue I'm having trying to receive money through an international wire transfer from E-Trade (shares).

Essentially, I sold some shares and E-Trade did a wire transfer to my account for me to get the money, over 4 weeks ago. The wire transfer was "completed" by them on 14th Feb, using the exact details I have provided in the past with no issue (and were saved on my account because of this). However, this time I still haven't received the money in my account (it has historically taken hours...).

To complicate things somewhat, the funds are sent in USD (not converted to GBP by E-Trade) to my bank (Nationwide) through their intermediary bank (HSBC) as per the information on the Nationwide website. As mentioned the details were the same as have worked fine in the past (Nationwide BIC NAIAGB21 and intermediary Bank BIC HSBC MIDLGB22). I have also confirmed that my bank account number (IBAN) is correct.

A couple of weeks after I hadn't received my money, E-Trade tried a recall of the funds, which as of yet has not resulted in anything (now 2+ weeks since this was done). They also obtained an "MT-103" document for the details to be checked. This was done not just for the unsuccessful payment, but previous successful ones, as a comparison point. The only thing that was of a concern, in both of these (despite previous ones being successful) was that the "Sent To" field states "HSBC BANK USA NA 452 FIFTH AVENUE", which doesn't align with the BIC MIDLGB22 which I would expect to be HSBC Bank PLC London  (Beneficiary bank is correctly NATIONWIDE NATIONWIDE HOUSE SWINDON GB SN38 1NW, which aligns with BIC NAIAGB21). The intermediary bank details are entered in a free text field  for other info on the E-Trade wire transfer request (whereas the beneficiary BIC is a fixed field). Therefore, it could be open to mistakes from E-Trade as I assume they need to take this and manually enter it elsewhere.  Can anybody confirm is the "Sent To" should actually be HSBC Bank GB, or if this is meant to be HSBC Bank USA, maybe because the funds were sent in USD?

I have of course also tried to chase this with Nationwide. Initially, they basically said there is nothing they could do, despite E-Trade providing  information on the MT-103 such as the CHIPS number, which they say should enable the receiving bank to trace the payment. I am now speaking to someone who is in contact with the international payments department, ands they are doing their best to help, but the team apparently stated that I need to provide them with the exact amount in GBP in order to be able to trace the payment. Of course, with the funds being sent in USD I have no way of knowing the exact conversion rate (which I assume is then done by HSBC). 

It seems to me like I can interface with the sender (E-Trade, Wells Fargo) and my bank (Nationwide) but it's "stuck" somewhere with HSBC. Nationwide state that they can't track it as it's not arrived with them and E-trade say they have proof it was sent with the MT-103 provided, but this seems like confirmation is was sent to HSBC (USA). Any other advice on what I can do, in addition to the above question, would be appreciated!

Thanks!

HobgoblinBT

The tracer needs to originate from the remitting bank, not the receiving bank.   The funds are likely sitting in a suspense account with one of the banks in the chain, but which one will only be found via the remitting bank.  So however frustrating it is, you need to chase this via E-Trade. 

Galno

HobgoblinBT said:

The tracer needs to originate from the remitting bank, not the receiving bank.   The funds are likely sitting in a suspense account with one of the banks in the chain, but which one will only be found via the remitting bank.  So however frustrating it is, you need to chase this via E-Trade. 

Thanks for talking the time to reply @HobgoblinBT, do you happen to know if the MT103 info (specifically, sending to HSBC USA) is correct? I’d like to know so that I can get a better understanding if the problem is potentially due to an error by E-Trade or just something else going wrong in the chain. Essentially, how much pressure I can put on E-Trade.

Ballard

There are two ways of sending funds using an MT103 so it’s not possible to say whether the one you’re querying is correct with the information you’ve given. 

A bank can either:

Send your bank the money (MT202COV) and then send an MT103 to your bank to tell them who the money is for.  In your example, Nationwide aren’t on Swift so HSBC, London are used. The MT202COV also has your details on it but your bank won’t act until they’ve received the MT103. 

Or send an MT103 to their correspondent giving all of the required details.

Both are valid ways of processing it although the first requires an agreement (commonly known as Swift keys) in place between the sending and receiving bank.   

nyermen

As Ballard says - either using a cover message or serialised (where it goes along the chain of banks).

It will be sat in a suspense account somewhere at least - follow the bic information for where its gone (not the addressee stuff that may be wrong - eg. MIDLGB22 is definitely UK, the GB gives it away along with most HSBC branches being MIDL because of the old Midland bank before it was bought).

Galno

nyermen said:

As Ballard says - either using a cover message or serialised (where it goes along the chain of banks).

It will be sat in a suspense account somewhere at least - follow the bic information for where its gone (not the addressee stuff that may be wrong - eg. MIDLGB22 is definitely UK, the GB gives it away along with most HSBC branches being MIDL because of the old Midland bank before it was bought).

Thanks for the response (and to @B@Ballard). So to confirm, it looks like the fact they sent it to HSBC USA was a mistake by e-trade, despite it being sent in dollars? This was my hunch, but the fact it has been sucessful in the pastmade me doubt it a little. I'll put some more pressure on E-Trade in this case!

Galno

Just to add on to this, I spent some more time researching and was able to find more information in the public domain that E-Trade were able to themselves... A tool from Wells Fargo (Sorry, too new to post links, but a quick google of "Wells Fargo Payment Tracking" should do it) that allows you to specify a UETR (tracking number) for internaltional payments. E-Trade mention Wells Fargo on the MT-102 so I assume the use them for the transfers. Anyway, this provides me with the status of "Rejected" the day after the wire was sent (over a month ago). I would have assumed this would be returned to E-Trade, but it still hasn't been (despite the recall also being in place).

Thrugelmir

Then highly likely to be sitting in a Wells Fargo suspense account awaiting resolution. As with anything that requires manual handling , a question of how long is a piece of string. US domestic banking isn't generally efficient as in the UK. 

HobgoblinBT

OP, can you interpret the MT103?  Try this Wikipedia link to “MT103 codes” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT103. You can check the MT103 has the correct beneficiary bank account details and where the funds might be, but the payment will still need to be chased via the originating bank.  If you wish to post a copy of the MT103 for assistance,  please redact the amount, the remitter and beneficiary account numbers before posting.

ILoveSittingDown

As others have said, it’s probably stuck at one of the banks in the chain. The sender should be chasing it with their bank who should be able to track it and resolve it

Galno

@HobgoblinBT I've checked the information on the MT103 and it's all correct (and not changed from previous succesful transfers).

@ILoveSittingDown I agree this seems to be the case. E-Trade have basically been saying the MT103 confirms the funds were deposited and I need to chase with my bank. Apparently Weels Fargo got back to them to say they couldnt see that anything was rejected, so I pointed E-Trade (to pass on to Wells Fargo) the tool on their own website which says otherwise.

E-Trade are adament that he finds were sent, but I don't think they seems to grasp that there are intemediatry banks in the mix, so, although it may have left Wells Fargo (which is seemingly as far as E-Trade say they can trace), it's probably stuck with HSBC and isn't yet with my bank.

Well, this has given me time to set up and test a Wise account anyway...