Fence dispute

Superjames

Hi, I am hoping theres someone out there that has experience in dealing with a situation that we found ourselves in.

We recently purchased a semi detached property, the attached house is a private rental. The previous owner of our property paid to have fencing installed around all 3 sides of the rear garden as the existing fences were in such a poor state of repair. One of these fences is the one between ours and the attached houses gardens. We would like to increase the height of this fence for privacy, it is currently around 4 foot. The tenants next door have objected to this, claiming that the fence belongs to them as it is marked with a T on the deeds.

So I guess my questions are:

 - If the fence was installed by the previous owner of our house, does that mean we own it even though they are responsible for maintaining that boundary?
 - I suspect that the fence may well actually be installed on our boundary as it seems to be more towards our garden. How can I go about proving this?
 - They also claim that some plants and shrubs between our houses to the front of our property are also theirs despite being paid for and planted by the previous owner of our house with a flower bed facing our property. How can we go about getting this sorted out?

Any experience, thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated

ashe

The fence belongs to whoever owns it I believe. if your previous owner paid for it, it belonged to him. You bought the house, now you.

Ask them for evidence of ownership and if you have legal protection on your home insurance, give them a ring. 

Bendy_House

With many semis, it should be fairly easy to work out where, exactly, they 'join'. Is this not clear on yours?
Anyhoo, some basic rules about fences on boundaries, afaik. The 'T's generally suggest a 'responsibility', designed, I presume, in order to keep things fair and civil. Having said that, unless the deeds make it clear that you MUST maintain a fence or boundary, then there is no legal obligation to do so (except to keep animals in, etc.)
Ok, your boundary fence with the semi. IF this is within your land - IE you can accurately determine where the actual boundary line is, and the fence is just your side of this, then the fence actually belongs to you. And you can do with it as you wish. If it sits ON the 'line', then it doesn't, and you really shouldn't touch it without permission. In this case, the best thing for you to do is to plant your own posts, and run a trellis or whatevs along the top to give you the extra height.
Since the previous owner went to the expense of replacing that fence too, then there is a good chance they cleverly did position it JUST their side of the line, in which case it is 100% yours. But you'd need to confirm this..
What's the neighb's issue?

Bendy_House

Even if the previous owner bought and installed this fence, if it is within the neighbour's property - and probably even if it's straddling the line - then it is no longer yours. It ain't on your land, so you can't do stuff to it.
I guess you could try demanding it back, but hey...

TELLIT01

If they are tenants surely the fence would be an issue for the landlord, not them.  To determine whether the fence is on the boundary or on the OP's land should be simple enough.  Semi's are generally mirror images of each other.  Measure the distance between the doors or windows closest to the boundary and divide that by 2.  If the posts are on that line then it is on the boundary.  If the posts are closer than that they are in all probability on the OPs land.  It's not certain or scientific but will give a guide.

400ixl

As above, it depends whether the fence is on the boundary line or within it.

I know someone who was having a similar debate (wasn't a dispute though as they got on with the neighbour) about height and cam to an agreement to only put 6ft panels for the two closest to the house where the patio's were and then have the rest as 4ft so too much light wasn't blocked in the rest of their neighbours garden.

TELLIT01

We did similar with our fence when we replace it.  5' panels near the house and 3' further down.  All on 6" concrete gravel boards.

Superjames

Thanks for all of the replies so far.

So abit of back ground, this was all previously discussed and agreed to however relations have become rather strained due to other issues so it seems as though they digging their heels in on this one just for the sake of it. After all we are talking about having a fence professionally installed on a boundary that belongs to them entirely at our own expense. But I digress.

So their issue appears to be that their estate agent has advised them that the fence is theirs. Have had a quick measure up this morning to try and establish the boundary and it does appear as though the posts and fence does fall within our boundary. We may be lucky and have them measure it and agree, however I would like be prepared and have a third party confirm this if there is a disagreement. Who might we approach to confirm the boundary. Should we also be talking to their landlord directly?

We obviously don't want to fall out with anyone but I feel as though that ship has sailed. We now just want to get this fence issue sorted in the proper manner so we can have abit of privacy and get on with out lives.

Good point with the light but we are the only ones that stand to loose any light due to orientation of the gardens.

Bendy_House

Yes, you should be talking to the LL directly. As far as I know, the fences on a rental property are the responsibility of the LL and not the tenant - it's part of the property's fabric. Like existing decking - if this rots, the LL needs to repair it, not the tenant.
So why the EA was telling the tenant that it was 'their' fence is weird.
(Caveat - I could be wrong...)

Bendy_House

SJ, can you take a photo of where the two properties meet, and its relation to this fence?
And can I ask what other sorts of issues have you had? Many ASTs have a requirement that the tenant does not cause a nuisance to neighb's or behave in an anti-social manner.

Soot2006

If you can bear to lose a few inches of land, put up a new fence, clearly on your side of the boundary at the height that you'd like. We did this in our old house and made sure it was right up to the legal height of 2m so I never had to see their miserable faces again. Of course they ended up removing the old smaller fence but now the disposal was at their cost and I made sure to keep my  fence receipt and photos of the old layout for our buyers for when we sold.