Any risk here?

Timewarp

I have used Motorway.co.uk before to sell my car, and first time it was really smooth, getting a great price for my BMW in the pandemic, plus I got 1k over Motorway's estimate.

However, I recently sold my Mini (the wife's car), and things got into a right mess. After getting bids on Motorway, I accepted the highest offer, even though it was slightly under the estimate this time. No worries.

When it was on Motorway, I declared that it had finance outstanding (~10k). But once my buyer was confirmed, I thought it might make things simpler if I paid off this finance. So instead of buyer paying me and the finance separately, the latter I would have no instant confirmation of, the process would be instead that the buyer turns up, inspects the car, pays me via Faster Payments for 14k and then takes the car and V5.

I sent the car dealer that won the bid my proof of settlement via email ahead of the collection, and they acknowledged. However, when it came to collection, they transferred me £4k and Mini Finance 10k, doubly settling my finance. Understandably, I wouldn't release the car with only 4k in my account, so I sent them packing after waiting in all day (buyer said 10am, they turned up 4:30pm, but that's by-the-by).

So over the next week, they were in contact with Mini Finance to get their money back so they could come to collect the car again. Things were getting close, as our new car was arriving very soon, and I wanted to move this on before then.

On the Friday they said they had the money back from Mini Finance, so were in a position to collect Monday 9am (same day as new car was turning up). However, they turned up Monday 2:45pm, and made the same mistake AGAIN. Me 4k and Mini Finance 10k, sending the money back they'd taken all week to get returned. Although this time, the buyer did then make a further payment to me for the 10k once I notified them of their repeated error, so I released the car.

I thought all was well, however, the Friday after I got 10k credited to me from Mini Finance. I rang them to check the money was mine and they confirmed, and also sent me something in writing to confirm this was a refund from the over-payment. Sounds like they should have sent this to the car dealer.

I kept it in my account for a while, as I couldn't be sure if the money was the car dealer's or not. The car dealer rang the other day to ask if I had the money, so I confirmed and obviously they want it back.

My question is, am I OK to transfer it to them, or is there any risk I could end up 10k out of pocket? You know you hear of some scams, and although the car dealer is incompetent, they are not necessarily malicious. Despite this, is this a safe transaction to do?

So in total £30k was transferred to Mini Finance: 10k by me, 20k by the car dealer. Seems like Mini Finance have refunded my payment and one of the car dealer's rather than two of the car dealer's.

Grumpy_chap

That is a complicated read to track who was paid what by whom and when.  

The payments that are important are those that you have made / received via your bank.  That seems to be:

1. £14k value of the Mini.
2. £10k from you to Mini Finance to settle the loan.
3. £4k from the Motorway dealer (first time) (plus £10k to Mini Finance)  "when it came to collection"
4. £4k from the Motorway dealer (second time) (plus £10k to Mini Finance)   "Monday 2:45pm"
5. £10k from the Motorway dealer.  "buyer did make a further payment so I released the car"
   
6. £10k refund from Mini Finance
   

(1) is purely a note
(2) & (6) cancel each other out
(3) + (4) + (5) = £4k + £4k + £10k = £18k

You seem to have received £4k more than you should, plus you would then still need to pay £10k to Mini Finance.  So, at present you are £14k "up" not £10k "up" (been paid for the car twice in effect).

I think this is more likely error by the Dealer than anything else.  To protect yourself, simply say to the Dealer that you will get a final account statement from the Mini Finance company and also a statement from the Dealer and you will then settle any remaining amounts promptly.

That shows you are working to get this sorted, and not seeking to run away with the money.

Timewarp said:

I have used Motorway.co.uk before to sell my car, and first time it was really smooth, getting a great price for my BMW in the pandemic, plus I got 1k over Motorway's estimate.

However, I recently sold my Mini (the wife's car), and things got into a right mess. After getting bids on Motorway, I accepted the highest offer, even though it was slightly under the estimate this time. No worries.

When it was on Motorway, I declared that it had finance outstanding (~10k). But once my buyer was confirmed, I thought it might make things simpler if I paid off this finance. So instead of buyer paying me and the finance separately, the latter I would have no instant confirmation of, the process would be instead that the buyer turns up, inspects the car, pays me via Faster Payments for 14k and then takes the car and V5.

I sent the car dealer that won the bid my proof of settlement via email ahead of the collection, and they acknowledged. However, when it came to collection, they transferred me £4k and Mini Finance 10k, doubly settling my finance. Understandably, I wouldn't release the car with only 4k in my account, so I sent them packing after waiting in all day (buyer said 10am, they turned up 4:30pm, but that's by-the-by).

So over the next week, they were in contact with Mini Finance to get their money back so they could come to collect the car again. Things were getting close, as our new car was arriving very soon, and I wanted to move this on before then.

On the Friday they said they had the money back from Mini Finance, so were in a position to collect Monday 9am (same day as new car was turning up). However, they turned up Monday 2:45pm, and made the same mistake AGAIN. Me 4k and Mini Finance 10k, sending the money back they'd taken all week to get returned. Although this time, the buyer did then make a further payment to me for the 10k once I notified them of their repeated error, so I released the car.

I thought all was well, however, the Friday after I got 10k credited to me from Mini Finance. I rang them to check the money was mine and they confirmed, and also sent me something in writing to confirm this was a refund from the over-payment. Sounds like they should have sent this to the car dealer.

I kept it in my account for a while, as I couldn't be sure if the money was the car dealer's or not. The car dealer rang the other day to ask if I had the money, so I confirmed and obviously they want it back.

My question is, am I OK to transfer it to them, or is there any risk I could end up 10k out of pocket? You know you hear of some scams, and although the car dealer is incompetent, they are not necessarily malicious. Despite this, is this a safe transaction to do?

So in total £30k was transferred to Mini Finance: 10k by me, 20k by the car dealer. Seems like Mini Finance have refunded my payment and one of the car dealer's rather than two of the car dealer's.

Timewarp

Complicated is the word, but you seem to have understood. 

When I didn't release the car I gave them the 4k back instead, although I did wonder if it fit the bill of an "overpayment scam" at the time. I do have a letter from Mini Finance saying the refund from them is for the overpayment, and if I login to Mini Finance it does show zero balance. 

pramsay13

Once you've double checked with Mini Finance that they are not going to try and recover that money if is fine to return it to the dealer. 
Alternatively just send it back to Mini Finance and let them sort it out.