Heathrow T5 drop off fine - Debt Recovery Plus

amy1992

Hi all,

Wish I’d thought to read these threads sooner but, hindsight and all that…

In summary:

- driver (not me) dropped some people off at Heathrow T5 in mid November 2021 and saw a sign saying £5 charge as of some time in November (didn’t take note of specific date as was…driving). Driver assumed that there would be a pay point (barrier or similar) as in Luton, etc. if charges were already in force - next thing they knew they were back on the main road and that ‘must not yet be in force’;

- PCN received from APCOA a few days later addressed to registered keeper;

- PCN appealed on the basis on unclear signage as driver hadn’t seen anything about WHERE or HOW to pay or that a PCN would result from non-payment BUT (d’oh) identified driver - appeal also said happy to pay the £5;

- appeal acknowledged by APCOA (auto response) together with instructions not to pay, etc until appeal result received and that £40 would not increase to £80 in the meantime;

- heard nothing further from APCOA until a letter received as payments reminder saying now £80 due not £40 - tried to contact APCOA to query as appeal ongoing but impossible to get through;

- no appeal response ever received and now, in March 2022, letter received (again addressed to KEEPER despite driver being identified) - Debt Recovery Plus saying £150 now sue and that they are powerless to cancel without APCOA’s instructions to do so. APCOA say they are powerless to do anything further as now with DRP. 

- APCOA say they sent rejection in January by email and post to DRIVER (not keeper) but nothing was ever received. Seems suspicious that neither was received and I suspect that they were generated but not sent - I understand relevant guidance says they must hold proof that the letters were posted and not just generated/printed. APCOA read content of letter over the phone but have not provided a POPLA code and refuse to discuss it further citing the fact it’s now out of their hands.

My instinct is that keeper should go back to APCOA and request POPLA code and submit an appeal on the basis of no keeper liability but, as driver identified already, not sure if that remains relevant. Either way, would also appeal on the basis that the signage was not sufficiently clear. Having looked hard on a further visit, there are plenty of signs which state clearly that the £5 is due but other info about the £80 if not paid and is in small print not clearly visible when driving. The signs are also to the side of the road and, when attempting to read them on the subsequent visit, the driver was moved on by security.

The image APCOA provided from ANPR shows the car but no signage so I also think they should be providing evidence that the signage was in clear view of the car. 

My further instinct is to ignore DRP as they have no contractual link with the driver or keeper and so no right to bring any kind of action; however, I assume it’s best not to ignore APCOA and to attempt an appeal via POPLA. 

Advice welcomed readily! 

amy1992

Further - am I right in thinking the following:

1. that even if the keeper/driver lose POPLA appeal that the maximum cost would be the £80 full value of the PCN and that DRP are just chancing it by increasing it to £150?

2. that DRP will not start knocking on the door as they aren’t bailiffs and neither can they issue proceedings themselves. 

3. That a CCJ can only result from APCOA issuing (and winning) proceedings and the defendant refusing to pay within 28 days? 

Coupon-mad

You can't appeal to POPLA without a POPLA code.  Was the appeal done in the name of the keeper, or by the driver?

If done by the keeper did they give the name and postal address of the driver?

patient_dream

amy1992 said:

Further - am I right in thinking the following:

1. that even if the keeper/driver lose POPLA appeal that the maximum cost would be the £80 full value of the PCN and that DRP are just chancing it by increasing it to £150?

2. that DRP will not start knocking on the door as they aren’t bailiffs and neither can they issue proceedings themselves. 

3. That a CCJ can only result from APCOA issuing (and winning) proceedings and the defendant refusing to pay within 28 days? 

POPLA do not get involved with the money side, they are only interested in the facts. If someone loses at POPLA it makes no difference as judges more often than not take no notice of them.

DRP do NOT have the power to knock on your door so that cannot happen.  . DRP are the Pinocchio of the parking scam and that nose gets longer every day. They are a BPA members who keep driving their standards down. SAD

APCOA or any of the OTHER bottom feeders .. CANNOT issue a CCJ .
Only a Judge can do that if you lost and did not pay in time

DRP are scamming you for a fake add-on and as government has now banned the fake in the new code of practice, a judge will probably see the fake as "double recovery" which is an abuse of process

amy1992

Coupon-mad said:

You can't appeal to POPLA without a POPLA code.  Was the appeal done in the name of the keeper, or by the driver?

If done by the keeper did they give the name and postal address of the driver?

I believe the appeal was done in the name of the driver. 

I appreciate that the POPLA appeal can’t be done without the code so my instinct is to require APCOA to provide the code and to say that, if they don’t, we consider the matter closed and the PCN withdrawn? Presumably if we do nothing then they will continue to instruct DRP to send threatening letters?

BrownTrout

amy1992 said:

Coupon-mad said:

You can't appeal to POPLA without a POPLA code.  Was the appeal done in the name of the keeper, or by the driver?

If done by the keeper did they give the name and postal address of the driver?

I believe the appeal was done in the name of the driver. 

I appreciate that the POPLA appeal can’t be done without the code so my instinct is to require APCOA to provide the code and to say that, if they don’t, we consider the matter closed and the PCN withdrawn? Presumably if we do nothing then they will continue to instruct DRP to send threatening letters?

DRP or APCOA couldn't instruct a dead cat. Who cares about such irrelevant letters. 
Ignore DRP/CST. Do nothing else and forget about 

Coupon-mad

You can safely do the above but another tactic is to complain about the lack of POPLA code, to the BPA.