more purchases treated as "cash"

Ebe_Scrooge

dmmm said:

If credit card providers are unable or unwilling to work for their money, they should be forced out of business and make room for someone who is willing to. Same applies to the regulator. 

What do you mean by "work for their money"?  They provide a service which people want, and which they charge for.  If you stop using their services, they'll go out of business.  Well, providing that millions and millions of others follow suit

Fingerbobs

eskbanker said:

Fingerbobs said:

Sandtree said:

dmmm said:

Then they should warn their customers before the transaction is complete if that is going to be 'cash' or whatever else they want to call it.

And how do you think that should work @dmmm? You go to the Bureaux de Change to get your travel money, hand over your credit card to pay and... ?

If you have a mobile with you and you have reception then you have to take a call within 1 second? Can't get it out your pocket in time, didn't bring it with you, no reception, no credit (if overseas) etc then an auto-decline?

Does that protect the majority or cause inconvenience for the majority? 

A prompt on the card terminal: 
"You will be charged for this transaction. Press Green to continue or Red to cancel"
That would do the trick. 

While anything can be reduced to something that sounds ridiculously simple, do you have any idea how difficult and expensive it is to change international payment processing standards used by the vast number of organisations involved?

No, but if there was any impetus in the industry to do it, it would get done. "Difficult" problems are solved all the time. Implementing the prompt  to insert the card after a declined contactless transaction was probably similarly "difficult" but that was implemented. 

[Deleted User]

Fingerbobs said:

eskbanker said:

Fingerbobs said:

Sandtree said:

dmmm said:

Then they should warn their customers before the transaction is complete if that is going to be 'cash' or whatever else they want to call it.

And how do you think that should work @dmmm? You go to the Bureaux de Change to get your travel money, hand over your credit card to pay and... ?

If you have a mobile with you and you have reception then you have to take a call within 1 second? Can't get it out your pocket in time, didn't bring it with you, no reception, no credit (if overseas) etc then an auto-decline?

Does that protect the majority or cause inconvenience for the majority? 

A prompt on the card terminal: 
"You will be charged for this transaction. Press Green to continue or Red to cancel"
That would do the trick. 

While anything can be reduced to something that sounds ridiculously simple, do you have any idea how difficult and expensive it is to change international payment processing standards used by the vast number of organisations involved?

No, but if there was any impetus in the industry to do it, it would get done. "Difficult" problems are solved all the time. Implementing the prompt  to insert the card after a declined contactless transaction was probably similarly "difficult" but that was implemented. 

That applies industry wide- this only applies to Lloyds Banking Group credit cards.

It would only be (slightly) practical for a Lloyds credit card transaction using their own Cardnet terminals. An edge case and cheaper just to lose the disgruntled cardholders.    

MrFrugalFever

Is there any reason (legal?) as to why a CC provider cannot make its consumers aware of the MCC it uses in certain scenarios?

I notice some CC providers have aligned their cash-like transaction interest rates to their standard purchase interest rates.

Sandtree

MrFrugalFever said:

Is there any reason (legal?) as to why a CC provider cannot make its consumers aware of the MCC it uses in certain scenarios?

As its not your CC provider that sets it... do you think when a new petrol station in rural Ethiopia opens it has to approach every credit card company world wide to discuss its business and agree which MCC code it'll be assigned? 

Its the merchant's payment service/acquiring bank that determines the MCC code but your CC that determines how it reacts to the MCC. Some FinTech solutions in some territories (eg Square in the US) allow the merchant themselves to determine their MCC.

You could make banks publish how they treat each MCC, then you can ask the merchant what MCC will be used but that then relies on the teenager on reception at a Hermitage Hotel to remember that if you are using Mastercard their code is 3616 but Visa its 7011 and something else again for AmEx, Diner etc

Fingerbobs

Deleted_User said:

Fingerbobs said:

eskbanker said:

Fingerbobs said:

Sandtree said:

dmmm said:

Then they should warn their customers before the transaction is complete if that is going to be 'cash' or whatever else they want to call it.

And how do you think that should work @dmmm? You go to the Bureaux de Change to get your travel money, hand over your credit card to pay and... ?

If you have a mobile with you and you have reception then you have to take a call within 1 second? Can't get it out your pocket in time, didn't bring it with you, no reception, no credit (if overseas) etc then an auto-decline?

Does that protect the majority or cause inconvenience for the majority? 

A prompt on the card terminal: 
"You will be charged for this transaction. Press Green to continue or Red to cancel"
That would do the trick. 

While anything can be reduced to something that sounds ridiculously simple, do you have any idea how difficult and expensive it is to change international payment processing standards used by the vast number of organisations involved?

No, but if there was any impetus in the industry to do it, it would get done. "Difficult" problems are solved all the time. Implementing the prompt  to insert the card after a declined contactless transaction was probably similarly "difficult" but that was implemented. 

That applies industry wide- this only applies to Lloyds Banking Group credit cards.

It would only be (slightly) practical for a Lloyds credit card transaction using their own Cardnet terminals. An edge case and cheaper just to lose the disgruntled cardholders.    

No, I was thinking of it as an industry-wide change, not specific to Lloyds. All cards from all banks treat some transactions as cash, so the proposed "prompt" would be applicable to all. 

And before the next person jumps down my throat - I know this will never be implemented, but the reason is that the industry simply doesn't want to implement it. It's a cost-benefit analysis. Not for any technical reason. All the technical challenges could be overcome if they wanted to overcome them. Arguing that it is "too difficult" is rubbish. 

born_again

@Fingerbobs

Not knocking your idea, as it is a sound one.
But everytime they update the Visa system. It breaks something else & takes a age to fix.
The likes of Visa/Mastercard have their own systems which need to then interact with each banks own systems some of which date back over 30 years...

I would love to see whole new systems brought in. But one of ours is so old & we have been told for the last 10 years it will be going each year. Yet is still here. 
3 years ago we were shown a new system. We though great looks good & easy to use. Only to find that they were mocked up screen shots & no where near a actual working system.... Talk about highs & lows... 

Sandtree

Fingerbobs said:

Deleted_User said:

Fingerbobs said:

eskbanker said:

Fingerbobs said:

Sandtree said:

dmmm said:

Then they should warn their customers before the transaction is complete if that is going to be 'cash' or whatever else they want to call it.

And how do you think that should work @dmmm? You go to the Bureaux de Change to get your travel money, hand over your credit card to pay and... ?

If you have a mobile with you and you have reception then you have to take a call within 1 second? Can't get it out your pocket in time, didn't bring it with you, no reception, no credit (if overseas) etc then an auto-decline?

Does that protect the majority or cause inconvenience for the majority? 

A prompt on the card terminal: 
"You will be charged for this transaction. Press Green to continue or Red to cancel"
That would do the trick. 

While anything can be reduced to something that sounds ridiculously simple, do you have any idea how difficult and expensive it is to change international payment processing standards used by the vast number of organisations involved?

No, but if there was any impetus in the industry to do it, it would get done. "Difficult" problems are solved all the time. Implementing the prompt  to insert the card after a declined contactless transaction was probably similarly "difficult" but that was implemented. 

That applies industry wide- this only applies to Lloyds Banking Group credit cards.

It would only be (slightly) practical for a Lloyds credit card transaction using their own Cardnet terminals. An edge case and cheaper just to lose the disgruntled cardholders.    

No, I was thinking of it as an industry-wide change, not specific to Lloyds. All cards from all banks treat some transactions as cash, so the proposed "prompt" would be applicable to all. 

And before the next person jumps down my throat - I know this will never be implemented, but the reason is that the industry simply doesn't want to implement it. It's a cost-benefit analysis. Not for any technical reason. All the technical challenges could be overcome if they wanted to overcome them. Arguing that it is "too difficult" is rubbish. 

It is difficult means its expensive means it makes the cost-benefit more difficult to balance.

Its "too difficult" doesn't mean its not technically possible but its no some easy task that'll cost next to nothing and therefore can be done even if the benefit is unlikely to be significant.

You say "all cards" treat some transactions as cash? Or do you really mean all UK cards? There are 161m card machines in the world of which just 3m are in the UK. Have you done your analysis of cards issued in the UAE? Japan? Or is that "too difficult"? If in fact its just UK, or even just EU, then convincing the rest of the world to make changes to meet a UK/EU specific requirement will be challenging