No Heat in Downstairs Radiators/8 mnth old Combi Boiler

Lizbetty

NSG666 said:

What is the perssure in the system? Should be c.1bar or in 'green' zone

It's around 2 bar when the heating is on, I did have to top it up to 1 bar two days ago as it had dropped over about 4 months to about 0.5 bar. It does drop back down to 1 bar when the heating is off though. 

We did put a radiator back from 0 to 6 on the TRV that has been switched off due to work being done/not using the room. It might be a coincidence that this has happened since then but again after bleeding the radiators it seemed fine. 

It's so frustrating not knowing what it is  I really appreciate all the help!  

NSG666

Lucyeff said:

NSG666 said:

What is the perssure in the system? Should be c.1bar or in 'green' zone

It's around 2 bar when the heating is on, I did have to top it up to 1 bar two days ago as it had dropped over about 4 months to about 0.5 bar. It does drop back down to 1 bar when the heating is off though. 

We did put a radiator back from 0 to 6 on the TRV that has been switched off due to work being done/not using the room. It might be a coincidence that this has happened since then but again after bleeding the radiators it seemed fine. 

It's so frustrating not knowing what it is  I really appreciate all the help!  

Ok. As Rob said, try turning off the upstairs rads (inc towel rad) to see whether it forces any air lock out

Lizbetty

NSG666 said:

Lucyeff said:

NSG666 said:

What is the perssure in the system? Should be c.1bar or in 'green' zone

It's around 2 bar when the heating is on, I did have to top it up to 1 bar two days ago as it had dropped over about 4 months to about 0.5 bar. It does drop back down to 1 bar when the heating is off though. 

We did put a radiator back from 0 to 6 on the TRV that has been switched off due to work being done/not using the room. It might be a coincidence that this has happened since then but again after bleeding the radiators it seemed fine. 

It's so frustrating not knowing what it is  I really appreciate all the help!  

Ok. As Rob said, try turning off the upstairs rads (inc towel rad) to see whether it forces any air lock out

Thanks, I've done that now. How long would you suggest leaving it please? I'm guessing we might need to try bleeding the radiators again afterwards? 

The kickboard heater in the kitchen is back to just on and off sporadically which suggests it's still struggling at the moment, still not much boiler noise. 

Just to update, 10 minutes in and the downstairs radiators now vary between cold and lukewarm. The screen on the boiler is showing the temperature rising then falling, then rising again, the heat symbol keeps coming on and off alongside that even though the temperature I set it to hasn't been reached at all. Kickspace heater is blowing lukewarm when it is kicking in too. Curious! 

Two vertical radiators that have any heat at all are lukewarm at the top and cold at the bottom, one is a bit warmer but not up to temperature. 

NSG666

Lucyeff said:

NSG666 said:

Lucyeff said:

NSG666 said:

What is the perssure in the system? Should be c.1bar or in 'green' zone

It's around 2 bar when the heating is on, I did have to top it up to 1 bar two days ago as it had dropped over about 4 months to about 0.5 bar. It does drop back down to 1 bar when the heating is off though. 

We did put a radiator back from 0 to 6 on the TRV that has been switched off due to work being done/not using the room. It might be a coincidence that this has happened since then but again after bleeding the radiators it seemed fine. 

It's so frustrating not knowing what it is  I really appreciate all the help!  

Ok. As Rob said, try turning off the upstairs rads (inc towel rad) to see whether it forces any air lock out

Thanks, I've done that now. How long would you suggest leaving it please? I'm guessing we might need to try bleeding the radiators again afterwards? 

The kickboard heater in the kitchen is back to just on and off sporadically which suggests it's still struggling at the moment, still not much boiler noise. 

It shouldn't take long.

The heating system temp hasn't been turned down on the boiler has it?
Do the upstairs rads get very hot (before you turned them off)?
Is the boiler upstairs i.e. needs to pump water downstairs?
Are the ground floor radiators fed from above or do the pipes come out of the floor?

It could be the pump but rare on such a new boiler. If it were a sludge build up I'd have expected a gradual drop off in heat with the bottoms of the downstairs rads cold and the tops very hot. Filter could be blocked but very unlikely unless the installer didn't use corrosion inhibitor.

Lizbetty

NSG666 said:

Lucyeff said:

NSG666 said:

Lucyeff said:

NSG666 said:

What is the perssure in the system? Should be c.1bar or in 'green' zone

It's around 2 bar when the heating is on, I did have to top it up to 1 bar two days ago as it had dropped over about 4 months to about 0.5 bar. It does drop back down to 1 bar when the heating is off though. 

We did put a radiator back from 0 to 6 on the TRV that has been switched off due to work being done/not using the room. It might be a coincidence that this has happened since then but again after bleeding the radiators it seemed fine. 

It's so frustrating not knowing what it is  I really appreciate all the help!  

Ok. As Rob said, try turning off the upstairs rads (inc towel rad) to see whether it forces any air lock out

Thanks, I've done that now. How long would you suggest leaving it please? I'm guessing we might need to try bleeding the radiators again afterwards? 

The kickboard heater in the kitchen is back to just on and off sporadically which suggests it's still struggling at the moment, still not much boiler noise. 

It shouldn't take long.

The heating system temp hasn't been turned down on the boiler has it?
Do the upstairs rads get very hot (before you turned them off)?
Is the boiler upstairs i.e. needs to pump water downstairs?
Are the ground floor radiators fed from above or do the pipes come out of the floor?

It could be the pump but rare on such a new boiler. If it were a sludge build up I'd have expected a gradual drop off in heat with the bottoms of the downstairs rads cold and the tops very hot. Filter could be blocked but very unlikely unless the installer didn't use corrosion inhibitor.

No the boiler temperature is set to about 75 at the mo. The boiler is in the kitchen downstairs, the ground floor radiators are all fed from the floor. The hall radiator is a vertical one and is cooler at the bottom, warmer at the top. Kitchen one is much cooler, lukewarm at the top and cold at the bottom. 

One pipe feeding the radiator is hot tho. If it is sludge, and maybe he hasn't put inhibitor in I'm guessing it's a mistake and he should rectify it free of charge? (Panicking more than usual as it's a bad month money wise ) Assuming it is that. As you say it seems odd though.

Oh just to add! Yes the upstairs radiators do get very hot. 

Bendy_House

A 12-year warranty sounds like the max, so I'd expect the installation to have included a full power-flush for that - ie chemicals pumped around the system, and any sludge collected by large magnets. You can confirm with Ideal what should be involved for the 12-year warranty.

Bottom line, if the guy says 'you need a system clean and that'll be £400, thank you', you should be able to tell him where to go.

The boiler 'cycling' on and off like that suggests a boiler that cannot get rid of the water it is heating, which usually means a flow restriction. This could be a partial blockage, or a faulty pump - but I wouldn't expect the latter for many years.

Could you post a photo of the filter? If it's easy to check - and it should be - then that should tell you lots.

Lizbetty

Bendy_House said:

A 12-year warranty sounds like the max, so I'd expect the installation to have included a full power-flush for that - ie chemicals pumped around the system, and any sludge collected by large magnets. You can confirm with Ideal what should be involved for the 12-year warranty.

Bottom line, if the guy says 'you need a system clean and that'll be £400, thank you', you should be able to tell him where to go.

The boiler 'cycling' on and off like that suggests a boiler that cannot get rid of the water it is heating, which usually means a flow restriction. This could be a partial blockage, or a faulty pump - but I wouldn't expect the latter for many years.

Could you post a photo of the filter? If it's easy to check - and it should be - then that should tell you lots.

Thanks, that's good to know! I am so worried about him sucking his teeth or not coming out if we tell him the onus is back on him. He was nice, a fairly new fitter (young lad) but didn't even have a radiator key on him when he fitted it and was in a rush with a hangover, you know when it makes you wonder? 

Hoping the photo of the filter is attached, it is a slightly awkward place. Usually I'm quite confident with trying to work this stuff out but I was worried it could void the warranty with him saying to leave it. The last Ideal boiler fitter showed me how to maintain the old filter though and said to check it every 6 months at first as more sludge might come out of the old system. 

 

Thanks again for your help by the way everybody I feel a lot calmer already! 

Ectophile

Did the hung-over plumber remember to add corrosion inhibitor when refilling the system?  If not, your system could be corroding away from the inside.  That could explain why it could rapidly block up.

NSG666

It sounds like it could be sludge.

Does the installation invoice refer to any cleansing of the system?
Also, the corrosion inhibitor that should have been added usually has a sticky label that the installer fills in the date and sticks it near the boiler so that there's a record of what was added and when - Sentinel and Fernox are the major brands.

I'd suggest not trying to clean the filter just so that the installer cannot say you have done something to cause any problem. That said I'd be wanting to see what colour water comes out of the filter plus anywhere else he drains the system so I'd want to be watching him. Just in case you don't know sludge is magnetite and is black. I'd even possibly want to keep a sample just in case I wanted to send it for analysis just in case this turns into something costly.

I think you need to see what the installer says first though and take it from there.

Bendy_House

Lucyeff said:

Bendy_House said:

A 12-year warranty sounds like the max, so I'd expect the installation to have included a full power-flush for that - ie chemicals pumped around the system, and any sludge collected by large magnets. You can confirm with Ideal what should be involved for the 12-year warranty.

Bottom line, if the guy says 'you need a system clean and that'll be £400, thank you', you should be able to tell him where to go.

The boiler 'cycling' on and off like that suggests a boiler that cannot get rid of the water it is heating, which usually means a flow restriction. This could be a partial blockage, or a faulty pump - but I wouldn't expect the latter for many years.

Could you post a photo of the filter? If it's easy to check - and it should be - then that should tell you lots.

Thanks, that's good to know! I am so worried about him sucking his teeth or not coming out if we tell him the onus is back on him. He was nice, a fairly new fitter (young lad) but didn't even have a radiator key on him when he fitted it and was in a rush with a hangover, you know when it makes you wonder? 

Hoping the photo of the filter is attached, it is a slightly awkward place. Usually I'm quite confident with trying to work this stuff out but I was worried it could void the warranty with him saying to leave it. The last Ideal boiler fitter showed me how to maintain the old filter though and said to check it every 6 months at first as more sludge might come out of the old system. 

 

Thanks again for your help by the way everybody I feel a lot calmer already! 

There are YouTube vids on these filters. Checking these are a simple DIY job, and I would imagine would also be within the remit of the owner - I can't see anyone being obliged to call in an outside plumber to do this.

And it really doesn't matter either way - if your system is sludged, then your system is sludged, and that means the guy didn't clean it properly so is liable (assuming it's a requirement of the install).

Bottom line - if your boiler goes kaput due to sludge - and combis are very prone to having their P2P exchangers blocked - then the boiler manufacturer won't be guaranteeing anything other than to tell you to sort out your installer. It's not a boiler fault. It's an installation omission.

If you decide to check the filter, keep a vid of the result. If you don't want to, that's fine - but see what the plumber finds. In any event, if the system is sludged, it'll become obvious, and the guy will have to sort it. And, if it is sludge, then good chance your boiler is already suffering to some degree - ie, some 'damage' will have been caused, such as a partially blocked P2P, diverter valve, or even gunk in your main exchanger.