Extending probation

Savvy_Sue

blueconker said:

Hi, 

I am looking for some advice please. My husband and son both work for a local company. They both recently had their initial 3 month probation period extended. My husband wasn't told this until a month post the expiry of his 3 month probation and my son on the day his probation expired. Neither of them were given any indication that this was likely, no problems had been raised with either of them. My husbands father died in January so he thought perhaps he hadn't been performing as well as he thought following that and so just took the extension on the chin. However, when my sons was also extended we became concerned for their future job security. Neither of them received anything saying specifically why their probation was extended (just a reference to concern at performance) and no targets or suggestions on how they could improve. Since my son was told, they have quietly investigated and found that 9 others have had their probation extended (the company took on new contracts so took on a lot of new starters at the same time).

This all seems very suspicious. It looks like they might be using extension of probation to keep workers without having to provide benefits. Surerly it is a red flag extending 9 workers probation,  particularly as no specific reason has been given and no targets for improvement.

Do you think they should cut their losses and look for another job? 

Any advice would be appreciated 😊

The other cynical reason for extending probation is that the company knows they have a short term need for extra workers, have taken a load on but anticipate that they will want to offload them again before any of them get to the two year mark. Doing this does reduce the need to pay company sick pay - how generous is that? - or death in service, which one rather hopes is a rare event! 

As has been said, the probationary period is fairly meaningless in terms of protection against dismissal, so I wouldn't recommend kicking up a fuss on their own, unless they have another job to go to, or can afford not to work. 

So there are 11 people who have recently had probation extended, all starting about the same time? Do they know of anyone who has NOT had this happen to them? How large is their part of the workforce? If those affected were prepared to work together, and raise a grievance TOGETHER, or at the least jointly request details of the improvement needed, ideally with the help of a Trade Union, they might get somewhere. https://www.tuc.org.uk/join-a-union

blueconker

Savvy_Sue said:

blueconker said:

Hi, 

I am looking for some advice please. My husband and son both work for a local company. They both recently had their initial 3 month probation period extended. My husband wasn't told this until a month post the expiry of his 3 month probation and my son on the day his probation expired. Neither of them were given any indication that this was likely, no problems had been raised with either of them. My husbands father died in January so he thought perhaps he hadn't been performing as well as he thought following that and so just took the extension on the chin. However, when my sons was also extended we became concerned for their future job security. Neither of them received anything saying specifically why their probation was extended (just a reference to concern at performance) and no targets or suggestions on how they could improve. Since my son was told, they have quietly investigated and found that 9 others have had their probation extended (the company took on new contracts so took on a lot of new starters at the same time).

This all seems very suspicious. It looks like they might be using extension of probation to keep workers without having to provide benefits. Surerly it is a red flag extending 9 workers probation,  particularly as no specific reason has been given and no targets for improvement.

Do you think they should cut their losses and look for another job? 

Any advice would be appreciated 😊

The other cynical reason for extending probation is that the company knows they have a short term need for extra workers, have taken a load on but anticipate that they will want to offload them again before any of them get to the two year mark. Doing this does reduce the need to pay company sick pay - how generous is that? - or death in service, which one rather hopes is a rare event! 

As has been said, the probationary period is fairly meaningless in terms of protection against dismissal, so I wouldn't recommend kicking up a fuss on their own, unless they have another job to go to, or can afford not to work. 

So there are 11 people who have recently had probation extended, all starting about the same time? Do they know of anyone who has NOT had this happen to them? How large is their part of the workforce? If those affected were prepared to work together, and raise a grievance TOGETHER, or at the least jointly request details of the improvement needed, ideally with the help of a Trade Union, they might get somewhere. https://www.tuc.org.uk/join-a-union

Thank you for your reply. 

Yes, actually that is even more likely given the industry and the peaks and troughs in their business.

We will definitely consider your suggestion about getting together with other employees and getting help from a union (thank you for the link). We will do some more covert investigations to see how many in total and if there are any who haven't had their probation extended. 

getmore4less

If it is the type of place that has cycles of demand there may be some history of recruitment and letting people go.

The issue you get when the cycle repeats is a bunch of people looking for new jobs at the same time.

How visible is the product demand.

Also be concerned about saying some work was scrapped, is that because a contract was cancelled, if not was there evidence of someone else doing the same job.

Will depend on type of product if all the same will be difficult to work out what's going on if custom per contract much easier.

blueconker

getmore4less said:

If it is the type of place that has cycles of demand there may be some history of recruitment and letting people go.

The issue you get when the cycle repeats is a bunch of people looking for new jobs at the same time.

How visible is the product demand.

Also be concerned about saying some work was scrapped, is that because a contract was cancelled, if not was there evidence of someone else doing the same job.

Will depend on type of product if all the same will be difficult to work out what's going on if custom per contract much easier.

Hi, thanks for replying. 

They were told that December to May is busy season and they make parts for high end sports cars and planes so definitely custom per contract.

They are still figuring out what they want to do (trust and security lost enough to risk starting again in new job). If they decide to stay, I think they will push for more info on how they can improve specifically to keep their jobs and, particularly in my sons case, more details on scrapped work (he did verbally challenge this in his meeting and was told it would be looked into. Another colleague whose probation was extended was just told that his confidence had dropped. He's being working in the industry for another company for years and is going to leave as a result of this.

Your advice is valuable as it helps us figure out the best thing to do for us. So, thank you 

elsien

I would agree the lack of any sort of performance management plan with proper targets does indicate a bit of game playing going on for whatever reason. 

blueconker

elsien said:

I would agree the lack of any sort of performance management plan with proper targets does indicate a bit of game playing going on for whatever reason. 

Yes, we think so too but we felt like we didn't really know and don't want to over react so your opinion is really helpful. Thank you

Own_Worst_Enermy

Marcon said:

blueconker said:

This all seems very suspicious. It looks like they might be using extension of probation to keep workers without having to provide benefits. 

If they are, they could be breaking the law. For example, have your husband and son (assuming he is at least 22 years of age and earning at least £10K pa) been auto-enrolled into a pension scheme? An employer must do so within 3 months of an employee starting work for them.

Eh ? No They don't have to pay into an a pension before 3 months as you happily told me Macon! Back in December 2021. 

I'm sure you were on the side of the Employer then!

Diamandis

It may be that the management have just been too busy to deal with it properly. We once had to extend all the new people's probation periods just because we had taken on so many people at once and it was a busy period so hadn't been able to review the quality of their work properly. 

74jax

Own_Worst_Enermy said:

Marcon said:

blueconker said:

This all seems very suspicious. It looks like they might be using extension of probation to keep workers without having to provide benefits. 

If they are, they could be breaking the law. For example, have your husband and son (assuming he is at least 22 years of age and earning at least £10K pa) been auto-enrolled into a pension scheme? An employer must do so within 3 months of an employee starting work for them.

Eh ? No They don't have to pay into an a pension before 3 months as you happily told me Macon! Back in December 2021. 

I'm sure you were on the side of the Employer then!

I've reread @Marcon 's reply to you. He's really clear so I'm not sure how you misunderstood.
In 3 months you must be signed up BUT although you might be contributing, the employer doesn't have to contribute until the 3 month mark (and then gives an explanation why). 
It's not being on the 'side of the employer', it's just giving you a reply to a question.

If the employer didn't do so, they could be breaking the law - as Marcon is saying here. Both replies are the same. No confusion. 

happyc84

To the OP, I would look for work elsewhere. To have 2 members of your family in this extended probation period is very stressful, and to have poor comms between Management and workforce is disturbing.

A company that treats staff like that at the beginning aren't going to change.

How many staff are employed at the site?
Is the money good or is it above minimum wage?