Should I walk away? cursed property with contaminated land and valuation errors

user1977

Diver2 said:

You can check most local council on-line planning portals yourself for a property planning history, you don't necessarily need to wait for your legal report. You'll likely get much more detail there as well. 

Most of them don't have much (if anything) available for 1980s applications though. May need to delve through the physical archives.

[Deleted User]

Diver2 said:

You can check most local council on-line planning portals yourself for a property planning history, you don't necessarily need to wait for your legal report. You'll likely get much more detail there as well. 

So if i found a property near by, and checked the planning it might tell me if the land was contaminated?

some people have had extensions built over the road.

user1977

[Deleted User] said:

Diver2 said:

You can check most local council on-line planning portals yourself for a property planning history, you don't necessarily need to wait for your legal report. You'll likely get much more detail there as well. 

So if i found a property near by, and checked the planning it might tell me if the land was contaminated?

some people have had extensions built over the road.

It's unlikely something as trivial as an extension would be looking at contamination, more likely to be for larger developments or anything which involves a change of use.

Diver2

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

Diver2 said:

You can check most local council on-line planning portals yourself for a property planning history, you don't necessarily need to wait for your legal report. You'll likely get much more detail there as well. 

So if i found a property near by, and checked the planning it might tell me if the land was contaminated?

some people have had extensions built over the road.

It's unlikely something as trivial as an extension would be looking at contamination, more likely to be for larger developments or anything which involves a change of use.

Agreed. You'd need the original planning permission for the development of the block of flats. See how far back the on-line stuff goes though. 

If you are especially curious about the land history, you'll nornally find that the Council have older OS maps might have some interesting information. These could give you more information on what the source of the contamination might be. Bit more detail here: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/about/history/historical-map-archives. Up to you though. 

[Deleted User]

Diver2 said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

Diver2 said:

You can check most local council on-line planning portals yourself for a property planning history, you don't necessarily need to wait for your legal report. You'll likely get much more detail there as well. 

So if i found a property near by, and checked the planning it might tell me if the land was contaminated?

some people have had extensions built over the road.

It's unlikely something as trivial as an extension would be looking at contamination, more likely to be for larger developments or anything which involves a change of use.

Agreed. You'd need the original planning permission for the development of the block of flats. See how far back the on-line stuff goes though. 

If you are especially curious about the land history, you'll nornally find that the Council have older OS maps might have some interesting information. These could give you more information on what the source of the contamination might be. Bit more detail here: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/about/history/historical-map-archives. Up to you though. 

Thanks I would need to compare that with what I already have, I think this is what is already in the environment report. In which case it states none of the land is defined as contaminated land but only states potential contamination. The property is bang in the middle of a known landfill however.

I think the search I am waiting for is from the council. Possibly. 

Diver2

OK, so you know it definately was landfill. Sorry I saw you called it a "works" earlier which is a different thing. 


Landfills do get sub-classified though, and so that would be a useful question to ask. Some took industrial wastes, some normal residential wastes and some filled mainly with inert wastes like building rubble. These all have very different contamination profiles and would have been managed differently as part of development. "potential contamination" is a deliberately vauge term. 

If your solicitor is talking about the council classifying the land as "Contaminated Land" (this is a statutory definition with a very high bar), then I would think that unlikely. Formally designated sites are few and far inbetween compared to the level of sites that actually had contamination. They are the very tall trees in this field. I would like to say that I would be relatively certain that your environmental report would have picked that up anyway (does it make refence to Part IIA of the Environmental Protection 1990 anywhere?).

[Deleted User]

Diver2 said:

OK, so you know it definately was landfill. Sorry I saw you called it a "works" earlier which is a different thing. 


Landfills do get sub-classified though, and so that would be a useful question to ask. Some took industrial wastes, some normal residential wastes and some filled mainly with inert wastes like building rubble. These all have very different contamination profiles and would have been managed differently as part of development. "potential contamination" is a deliberately vauge term. 

If your solicitor is talking about the council classifying the land as "Contaminated Land" (this is a statutory definition with a very high bar), then I would think that unlikely. Formally designated sites are few and far inbetween compared to the level of sites that actually had contamination. They are the very tall trees in this field. I would like to say that I would be relatively certain that your environmental report would have picked that up anyway (does it make refence to Part IIA of the Environmental Protection 1990 anywhere?).

It list about 20 landfill sites which were in the location/radius of the property. Within the 25 (or 50 meters) of the property, there was landfill and works (maybe a gas works).
 
Yes it does refer to this, it also mentions inert wastes, but it does not state is is contaminated land in any part of the report, only potentially contaminted. The solicitor seems to be talking like it is though so I assume they are either just making me aware of the possible outcome just to carry out their job, or know something I don't. But when they said the mortgage will be withdrawn unless this search is clear it sounded serious. 

Diver2

Thanks for the update. I would suspect that if you check, those are radius's (sp?) are 250 and 500m. Those kinds of checks rarely use such small measures, mainly down to the scale of historical mapping used. 

If the report doesn't confirm that the property is listed under Part IIA, then the local council search will come back clear I expect. This is because that is the only statutory Contaminated Land Register list that exists. There are no other formal lists of contaminated land in England.

Also, given the industrial land uses you describe, I would assert, with the high degree of confidence, that the site was likely remediated prior to redevelopment. Even in 2000, they didn't just let people build on former gasworks without clean-up (although the approaches and techniques to undertaking have changed and improved since then). The planning history associated with the orginal planning application would be where to start with that, but see what comes from your solicitor first. 

HotPantsCruiser

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

The problem is if the land is contaminated and it needs to be fixed then they may need to demolish the flats. Even if insurance covers it, imagine the disruption to you.

If nothing is done then you will have the same issue when you come to sell. Whoever is buying it will find out, their bank will be worried.

Then again, it's a difficult time for FTBs and you could potentially get a bargain if you can use them to push the price down a bit. Just offer them less and point out that you have sorted out all the issues and if they reject your offer they will have to go through the same again with someone else.

That is my main concern. And a good point you made about the disruption, not to mention new build would not be as high quality construction wise.

If I were to still buy it (providing the bank would still give the money) I would ask for a big chunk off. I doubt the seller would agree but they can only say no right?! I am talking 50k off. 

Still not worth it IMO, run away!