Overpayment query

Baled

My current employer also used my personal allowance 1257L in December on a week 1 basis. The pay period for current employer is 4 weekly, I was paid for 25 days as I started on December 1st and the pay period is 28/11-25/12. 

The tax deducted on my ex employer's December payslip is £147. When I checked my tax account online there is an adjustment of £2 which leaves £145.

But I shouldn't owe this amount as it's completely my idiot ex employer's fault for paying me in December when absolutely no money was owed to me. 

"Your payment of £232.50 was ££815.75 below this figure so 20% of that was rebated to you."

I think this £232.50 is to account for the pension deduction combined with their contribution. I was not owed this money, they have screwed up in processing it.

Will I have to pay HMRC £145 through no fault of my own?

EDIT:

Thanks for your replies by the way. I've just been offered a new job and I'm having to complete lots of screening forms online so my brain is swamped at the moment. 

Savvy_Sue

So do say, if, through no fault of your own, you'd overpaid £145 tax, would you expect HMRC to repay it to you?

Yes, you'll have to pay it. 

chrisbur

Being paid 4 weekly explains the figures.  You had taxable gross of £1518.21 the tax allowance for 4 weeks is £967.68 so £1518.21 less £967.68 is £550.53  Tax is only taken on full pounds so 20% of £550 is £110
Taxable gross in last employment was £ 14430.36 and in new employment £1518.21  so to date it is £15948.57 
Tax allowance as at week 40 is £9676.80 which when deducted from £15948.57 leaves £6271.77
Tax at 20% on £6271 is £1254.20.
Tax paid so far old employment £999.20 and new employment £110.00 so £1109.20
Tax due £1254.20  
Tax paid £ 1109.20
Tax owing £ 145.00

Your old employer made a payment to you of taxable gross £232.50  
As they were paying this as at month 9 there was a tax rebate added to this of £163.00 
This meant that your net pay for that month should have been £395.50
You actually had a net pay of £1517.24
£1517.24 less £395.50 is  £1121.74 which is the figure marked "Claim" on the payslip which is I assume the amount you have repaid to the old employer, or that you are going to pay back if not already paid.
Surely if there was no more money paid to you they would have asked for the full £1517.24 that they paid to you in December.

As to what the money was for only your old employer can tell you for certain, possibly accrued holiday pay or some time worked between salary cut off time and leaving date.
I have checked your pension figures and cannot see that this has anything to do with this payment other than the payment being £250 from which 7% went to your pension to leave £232.50 as taxable income to you.

Baled

Thanks. I will try to get clarification from them on what the £232.50 is for. 

Baled

chrisbur said:

Being paid 4 weekly explains the figures.  You had taxable gross of £1518.21 the tax allowance for 4 weeks is £967.68 so £1518.21 less £967.68 is £550.53  Tax is only taken on full pounds so 20% of £550 is £110
Taxable gross in last employment was £ 14430.36 and in new employment £1518.21  so to date it is £15948.57 
Tax allowance as at week 40 is £9676.80 which when deducted from £15948.57 leaves £6271.77
Tax at 20% on £6271 is £1254.20.
Tax paid so far old employment £999.20 and new employment £110.00 so £1109.20
Tax due £1254.20  
Tax paid £ 1109.20
Tax owing £ 145.00

Your old employer made a payment to you of taxable gross £232.50  
As they were paying this as at month 9 there was a tax rebate added to this of £163.00 
This meant that your net pay for that month should have been £395.50
You actually had a net pay of £1517.24
£1517.24 less £395.50 is  £1121.74 which is the figure marked "Claim" on the payslip which is I assume the amount you have repaid to the old employer, or that you are going to pay back if not already paid.
Surely if there was no more money paid to you they would have asked for the full £1517.24 that they paid to you in December.

As to what the money was for only your old employer can tell you for certain, possibly accrued holiday pay or some time worked between salary cut off time and leaving date.
I have checked your pension figures and cannot see that this has anything to do with this payment other than the payment being £250 from which 7% went to your pension to leave £232.50 as taxable income to you.

Turns out my numpty former employer got my leave date wrong and paid me up to 3rd December. I emailed them to advise them my leave date was 29th November but got no response. 

I received a letter from them yesterday about repaying the money which is fine but I don't know what to do about this December £232.50 'wage'. I am not due this money but if I try to get them to correct it I'm worried they'll just mess it up even further especially as we're in a new tax year.

Should I just let it be? How straightforward would or should it be for my former employer to put this right? 

Coincidentally, HMRC are now saying I owe them £337 in tax but when I spoke to them they advised me to wait until all my employers have submitted their year end figures and it will be checked again (I started a new job in March so I am back on monthly pay) 

chrisbur

I would be inclined to request full details of how they will adjust this.
What is the amount that they require to be refunded
What will be the new taxable gross to date figure
What will be the new tax paid to date figure
What will be the new national insurance figure  (Probably should not change but best to get it checked)

If not sure about the figures you can always post them here.

Regarding the tax due per HMRC you can only tell the correct figure when all adjustments have been made so best to wait for these details for the moment.

Baled

chrisbur said:

I would be inclined to request full details of how they will adjust this.
What is the amount that they require to be refunded
What will be the new taxable gross to date figure
What will be the new tax paid to date figure
What will be the new national insurance figure  (Probably should not change but best to get it checked)

If not sure about the figures you can always post them here.

Regarding the tax due per HMRC you can only tell the correct figure when all adjustments have been made so best to wait for these details for the moment.

I have spoken to someone dealing with the overpayment specifically before seeing your reply.

She said once the correct leave date is confirmed a new figure will be advised but I will request the breakdown you've suggested. I will post it here to be sure. 

Thank you very much for your help and advice, it's very much appreciated! 

Baled

Update: I contacted the overpayments team in April to advise them my leave date was wrong so they don't owe me any pay for December.  In May, I got a revised repayment figure with breakdown, screenshot below:


I requested my revised pay/tax figures to be given to me in writing but didn't receive a response from payroll.  At the end of May payroll generated the below document:



After speaking to payroll on May 30th, they emailed me to advise the below:



I believe this is all correct however when I spoke to HMRC on 7th June they said they haven't been updated with new pay/tax amounts and advised me to ask my employer to send them an update.  I have emailed payroll as when I phoned the same day I was told the person dealing with it was going on a week's holiday.

Are the cumulatives blank on this May pay document because they've used the 0T tax code? 

Are there regulations employers have to follow to update HMRC with adjusted pay/tax figures within a certain timescale? Or is it down to me to keep pushing them? 

The HMRC advisor said I could upload the pay/tax email on my online tax account but I couldn't find any option to do this.  He also gave me a postal address but I don't have easy access to a working printer plus he also said he wasn't sure if the email trail would be sufficient evidence anyway.

What's the best thing for me to do next?

chrisbur

First do you agree that you were overpaid by £1863.53 Taxable gross  (£2003.80 less £140.27 pension)
If so then as far as I can see the adjustment is correct and the figures of Taxable gross £14116.83 and tax paid to date of £1146.00 are the correct figures as at month 8.
Have you as yet paid anything back if so what amount.
You do need to keep chasing your old employer to send these corrected figures to HMRC.  I would assume that if you still owe them they would get a move on as to be fair until HMRC have the corrected figures you have no evidence that you actually owe them this money.

Baled

chrisbur said:

First do you agree that you were overpaid by £1863.53 Taxable gross  (£2003.80 less £140.27 pension)
If so then as far as I can see the adjustment is correct and the figures of Taxable gross £14116.83 and tax paid to date of £1146.00 are the correct figures as at month 8.
Have you as yet paid anything back if so what amount.
You do need to keep chasing your old employer to send these corrected figures to HMRC.  I would assume that if you still owe them they would get a move on as to be fair until HMRC have the corrected figures you have no evidence that you actually owe them this money.

Looking at it I am not sure how they've calculated my adjusted pay due for November. I was monthly paid and my last day was 29th November so they overpaid me by 1 day but I can't quite figure out how they have got a gross overpayment of £87.13 or £81.03 after pension deducted?