Housing Benefit and claiming my state pension

calcotti

pentsioner said:

calcotti said:

If they do what they propose then they are effectively treated you as having notional income for the whole period during which you deferred the pension and the paragraph reference earlier in this thread says, as I read it, that they’ve shouldn’t do that.

I can’t find a paragraph that explicitly states that the lump sum should be treated as capital but i5 is the logical outcome. The general rules guidance is here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/365783/hbgm-bp1-assessment-of-capital.pdf
Paragraphs P1.70 and following. Arrears of State Pension appear similar to some of the other sums explicitly mentioned.

P1.71 A payment of capital can normally be distinguished from income because it is

• made without being tied to a period

• made without being tied to any past payment, and
• not intended to form part of a series of payments

Thanks.

My council's reason for not treating this SP backpayment as capital is  "that the arrears of state benefit are taken into account as if they had been paid on time. This means that the date of change is the date the income would have been paid from had it ben paid on time."

I would be asking them to provide details of the legislation that says this. They may be correct but to me it makes no sense to not apply notional income rules and then apply the SP as retrospective income which will obviously create a previous overpayment.

calcotti

Having done some more digging I think that what is confusing matters is that the regulations deal with two sets of pension regulations.

Under the old pension scheme a deferred pension could be taken as a lump sum (which Fromm memory included interest) and regulations deal with the treatment of that. Under the new pension it is no longer possible to take a lump sum but, as you have discovered, you can be paid arrears of pension if the period is less than 12 months.

Have now got in a complete muddle over what regulations refer to what so am not clear what HB should be doing.

calcotti

the Housing Benefit (Persons who have attained the qualifying age for state pension credit) Regulations 2006.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/214/contents
Regulation 41(2)(d) deals with notional income rules not to apply while a pension is deferred.

Seems to me that your payment is a payment of arrears of benefit and I thought therefore that it might be captured as a disregard somewhere under Schedule 6 bit I can’t find reference to arrears of State Pension. The only references to lump sums, on closer inspection, appear to relate to inherited pensions of various kinds.

I can’t find rules about the ability to take arrears of pension rather than an increased payment if the deferment has been less than 12 months. I think perhaps one is simply backdating the claim and this is allowed for up to 12 months. If the latter applies then the council may, unfortunately, have it right.

(I apologise if my earlier posts have mislead you.)

pentsioner

calcotti said:

the Housing Benefit (Persons who have attained the qualifying age for state pension credit) Regulations 2006.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/214/contents
Regulation 41(2)(d) deals with notional income rules not to apply while a pension is deferred.

Seems to me that your payment is a payment of arrears of benefit and I thought therefore that it might be captured as a disregard somewhere under Schedule 6 bit I can’t find reference to arrears of State Pension. The only references to lump sums, on closer inspection, appear to relate to inherited pensions of various kinds.

I can’t find rules about the ability to take arrears of pension rather than an increased payment if the deferment has been less than 12 months. I think perhaps one is simply backdating the claim and this is allowed for up to 12 months. If the latter applies then the council may, unfortunately, have it right.

(I apologise if my earlier posts have mislead you.)

Please don’t apologise, I’m quite happy to abide by the rules: I didn't understand what they are. You have helped me before with the HB rules you posted on here.

 I didn’t get the full housing benefit amount anyway and the repayment is only for the weeks I backdated the state pension, which is a very low percentage of the money I received.

 I was going to take the backdated SP anyway (regardless of paying back HB and CT) as it didn’t make financial sense anymore to not do so at this stage.

 I get more SP now per week than I lost, as I also used some of the money to buy missing years.  My only gripe is that although the year I reached SP age in was a qualify year as I had paid enough NICs, that year can’t be counted towards a SP.

 Thank you for taking the time to look all this up. That was very kind of you. Thank you to all of you who give your time to help others understand the benefit rules.

calcotti

pentsioner said:  My only gripe is that although the year I reached SP age in was a qualify year as I had paid enough NICs, that year can’t be counted towards a SP.

It seems that the year in which you reach pension age never counts (which doesn't make sense to me if enough NI has already been paid in that year prior to reaching pension age).

pentsioner

calcotti said:

pentsioner said:  My only gripe is that although the year I reached SP age in was a qualify year as I had paid enough NICs, that year can’t be counted towards a SP.

It seems that the year in which you reach pension age never counts (which doesn't make sense to me if enough NI has already been paid in that year prior to reaching pension age).

The DWP Pension Services have said that as they can't use that year as the rules don't allow it, HMRC have to pay the NICs back. HMRC say that year is a qualifing year for SP for me and the correct NICs were paid.

calcotti

pentsioner said: The DWP Pension Services have said that as they can't use that year as the rules don't allow it,  

That is my understanding although, as per my earlier reply, I don't see the logic.

pentsioner said:..HMRC have to pay the NICs back.

Have never heard taht and am sure it's incorrect - and of course NI is paid for urethan just pension purposes