EV Charging and 3 Phase power

Tightaz

Has anyone successfully had 3 phase power installed for home EV charging?  Electricity North West will upgrade me for free under a carbon neutral scheme should they feel it justified. But they can’t tell me what the justification guidelines are. “Just apply we’ll look at it”

Bigwheels1111

From memory most UK car don’t take 3 phase 22kw charging.
I could be wrong.

https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/guides/22kw-three-phase-charging-is-it-worth-it/

Petriix

Typically you'll qualify if you've got a genuine use case for more power than 100A single phase, especially if you need to run multiple high-power, low-carbon devices like ASHPs and EVs etc.

If you've actually got an EV capable of charging at > 7kW on AC then that might be reasonable justification, but most current EVs can't. 

Keep_pedalling

Bigwheels1111 said:

From memory most UK car don’t take 3 phase 22kw charging.
I could be wrong.

https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/guides/22kw-three-phase-charging-is-it-worth-it/

Most new cars will charge on 3 phase, the Zoe will charge at 22kW, but other like the ID3 are limited to 16A per phase so are restricted to 11kW  AC charging where 3 phase is available. 

Petriix

Keep_pedalling said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

From memory most UK car don’t take 3 phase 22kw charging.
I could be wrong.

https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/guides/22kw-three-phase-charging-is-it-worth-it/

Most new cars will charge on 3 phase, the Zoe will charge at 22kW, but other like the ID3 are limited to 16A per phase so are restricted to 11kW  AC charging where 3 phase is available. 

*Some* new cars can charge on 3 phase. It may soon be more than half, but it certainly isn't anywhere close to half the EVs currently on the road. 

Tightaz

Thanks for the replies. I guess my thoughts were, EVs are the future, so if the offer is there to get 3 phase for free maybe I should take it and let the car technology catch up.

Keep_pedalling

Tightaz said:

Thanks for the replies. I guess my thoughts were, EVs are the future, so if the offer is there to get 3 phase for free maybe I should take it and let the car technology catch up.

If you can get 3 phase for free then I would seriously consider it for future proofing not just for cars but for the possibly of having to go all electric in the future. It won’t be totally free though as you will need an electrician to install a new 3 phase consumer unit.

it is unlikely that most EVs will offer any more than 11kW AC charging on 3 phase. A home ‘charger’ is not actually a charger it is a charge point, the actual charger (the bit that converts your AC supply to DC) is built into the car and using the the capacity to 22kW add a lot of cost and weight which would only benefit a very small number of owners.

Renault have got round this with a patented system that uses the windings of the electric motor as part of the inbuilt charger circuitry. Which is why unless you buy a Zoe you are going to be limited to 11kW max. 

DrEskimo

Keep_pedalling said:

Tightaz said:

Thanks for the replies. I guess my thoughts were, EVs are the future, so if the offer is there to get 3 phase for free maybe I should take it and let the car technology catch up.

If you can get 3 phase for free then I would seriously consider it for future proofing not just for cars but for the possibly of having to go all electric in the future. It won’t be totally free though as you will need an electrician to install a new 3 phase consumer unit.

it is unlikely that most EVs will offer any more than 11kW AC charging on 3 phase. A home ‘charger’ is not actually a charger it is a charge point, the actual charger (the bit that converts your AC supply to DC) is built into the car and using the the capacity to 22kW add a lot of cost and weight which would only benefit a very small number of owners.

Renault have got round this with a patented system that uses the windings of the electric motor as part of the inbuilt charger circuitry. Which is why unless you buy a Zoe you are going to be limited to 11kW max. 

Agree. Just to add, 22kW compatible chargers also cost more (around £190 extra on the charger I bought).

Zoe certainly did find a way around it, just a shame that it makes the most horrendous whine whilst it charges as a result!
I imagine there is an advantage to 3-phase for charging multiple EVs at once, even if both are limited to 7/11kW?

bengalknights

Can you add some PV's into the mix?

That should qualify you short of getting a porsche/tesla

Keep_pedalling

DrEskimo said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Tightaz said:

Thanks for the replies. I guess my thoughts were, EVs are the future, so if the offer is there to get 3 phase for free maybe I should take it and let the car technology catch up.

If you can get 3 phase for free then I would seriously consider it for future proofing not just for cars but for the possibly of having to go all electric in the future. It won’t be totally free though as you will need an electrician to install a new 3 phase consumer unit.

it is unlikely that most EVs will offer any more than 11kW AC charging on 3 phase. A home ‘charger’ is not actually a charger it is a charge point, the actual charger (the bit that converts your AC supply to DC) is built into the car and using the the capacity to 22kW add a lot of cost and weight which would only benefit a very small number of owners.

Renault have got round this with a patented system that uses the windings of the electric motor as part of the inbuilt charger circuitry. Which is why unless you buy a Zoe you are going to be limited to 11kW max. 

Agree. Just to add, 22kW compatible chargers also cost more (around £190 extra on the charger I bought).

The only difference between a single phase and 3 phase charge point is the breaker which required an additional 2 poles. The main difference in end user price is the result of far lower production numbers. 

Jenni_D

I saw an ad on TV at the weekend saying the Fiat 500e would charge in 5 minutes on a "fast" charge to give 30 miles range. I was going to ask what the "fast" charge rate was but I found the page below which indicates 11KW:

https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/fiat/2020/500e

Although perhaps the TV ad was relating to the Rapid (CCS) charge port which is rated to 85KW?