Could anyone sanity-check my fag-packet solar ROI calculation?

QrizB

itm2 said:

QrizB said:

I've bought panels from these guys before, they have a useful comparison table:
https://www.bimblesolar.com/panelcompare

My attention was drawn to the windscreen internal solar panels at this link. I remember buying one of these 10-15 years ago, leaving it in the sunlight in an open car park for about 5 hours to charge my phone, and finding that the phone charge had increased by about 1% when I returned. 
Are these panels of any genuine practical use for charging phones these days?

That's not their purpose.

The general idea is to help prevent your car battery going flat during periods of non-use. That requires an always-live cigar lighter socket, which none of my recent cars have had.

The small and medium-sized ones are toys. The larger 4.8W panel might be some use in a UK climate. It could give you 10Wh/day compared to the 600Wh capacity of a typical car battery.

but if you're going to spend £64 you'd be much better off with a pair of these plus one of these.

itm2

So my quest for solar panels may have hit a dead end. I have been told by the planning department of my local council (Richmond-Upon-Thames) that installation would not be permitted, as the panels would need to be sited on the south-west facing roof slope which faces the road. They say that this will be considered contrary to conditions A.2(a) and (b) of Class A of Part 14 of the Town and Country (General Permitted Development) Order 2015 (as amended). 

These conditions are:

 Conditions

A.2  Development is permitted by Class A subject to the following conditions—

(a)solar PV or solar thermal equipment is, so far as practicable, sited so as to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building;

(b)solar PV or solar thermal equipment is, so far as practicable, sited so as to minimise its effect on the amenity of the area

The full legislation is here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/14/crossheading/class-a-installation-or-alteration-etc-of-solar-equipment-on-domestic-premises_paragraph-A.2

As my property is not listed, not in a conservation area, and is not a period property (it was built in 1970), I am not seeing much sense in this. The local rooftops are already adorned with countless dormer windows, skylights, TV aerials and satellite dishes, and yet solar panels are out of the question if they are visible from the road.

It's hard to believe that the UK has legislation which seems to be actively preventing the proliferation of renewable energy. I've contacted my MP, who has told me that she will raise questions with the relevant minister/department.

Verdigris

An "in-roof" installation would be pretty unobtrusive, assuming you have a slate roof and you used black panels.

itm2

Verdigris said:

An "in-roof" installation would be pretty unobtrusive, assuming you have a slate roof and you used black panels.

The roof is tiled - see attached photo. It's also a 3-storey building, so actually not easily visible unless you're standing some distance away. There are many skylights on nearby roofs which actually look very similar to solar panels.

Verdigris

You can still do in-roof with tiles. It will still look less obtrusive, just not a much as black on black.

I think the council are being entirely unreasonable. Try writing to your MP and embarrassing them in the media.

Spies

itm2 said:

So my quest for solar panels may have hit a dead end. I have been told by the planning department of my local council (Richmond-Upon-Thames) that installation would not be permitted, as the panels would need to be sited on the south-west facing roof slope which faces the road. They say that this will be considered contrary to conditions A.2(a) and (b) of Class A of Part 14 of the Town and Country (General Permitted Development) Order 2015 (as amended). 

These conditions are:

 Conditions

A.2  Development is permitted by Class A subject to the following conditions—

(a)solar PV or solar thermal equipment is, so far as practicable, sited so as to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building;

(b)solar PV or solar thermal equipment is, so far as practicable, sited so as to minimise its effect on the amenity of the area

The full legislation is here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/14/crossheading/class-a-installation-or-alteration-etc-of-solar-equipment-on-domestic-premises_paragraph-A.2

As my property is not listed, not in a conservation area, and is not a period property (it was built in 1970), I am not seeing much sense in this. The local rooftops are already adorned with countless dormer windows, skylights, TV aerials and satellite dishes, and yet solar panels are out of the question if they are visible from the road.

It's hard to believe that the UK has legislation which seems to be actively preventing the proliferation of renewable energy. I've contacted my MP, who has told me that she will raise questions with the relevant minister/department.

Its utterly ridiculous, hopefully the MP can embarrass them into changing their decision especially based on current events!

Screwdriva

Top of the range (non-Chinese) costs around £5500 for a 4kW system. (Hyundai all black 400W panels + Solar Edge Inverters + Solar Edge Optimizers + Installation with a 20 year warranty on everything)

Martyn1981

Hiya. Have you asked the local planning department for an informal chat, or has that already happened leading to the information from them? You might find that:

so far as practicable

covers you, as PV on the NE roof wouldn't work well, and all cities, especially London, are under pressure to support renewables, reduced FF consumption, etc etc..

Can you find/spot other installs in the local council area that are on road facing roofs, and use those to support your case?

itm2

Screwdriva said:

Top of the range (non-Chinese) costs around £5500 for a 4kW system. (Hyundai all black 400W panels + Solar Edge Inverters + Solar Edge Optimizers + Installation with a 20 year warranty on everything)

That's interesting - thanks. I've just been quoted £6,469 by Spirit Energy for a 3.85kWp system with a Growatt inverter, or £8,344 for a 4kWp system with a Solis inverter.
Those are higher than I was expecting.

Spies

Prices are going up unfortunately.