Is it worth using Bailiffs to seize goods from debtors house ?

Terrier11

Any advice would be welcome. 
I have a county court judgement in my favour for over £10k, against an individual.  The guy lives in a four bedroom detached house with wife and two children ( both over 18).  There is a car in the driveway worth £7-8k. I am checking who the registered  owner is and if there is any hire purchase on the vehicle. The guy appears to have a lot of material assets in house( my assumption ).

If the guy is the registered vehicle keeper and no hire purchase, then clearly the bailiffs would seize that.  However, if that is not the case, then is it worth using bailiffs to seize goods from the debtors house?

I am aware that i would have to pay the bailiffs around £300 for them to contact the debtor and call and attempt to seize assets that would go towards the debt. I know it would not be near to £10k, but any part payment is better than nothing.  I never like to assume, but my assumption is that material items in the house will be his or there will be no proof they belong to other family members . It may well be that this action may make him find some money to pay the bailiffs to stop items being seized.

My concern is, would the bailiffs deem second hand goods ( TV, Laptops, Games consoles, furniture etc ) worth seizing ?. 
I am also aware that the guy will claim he has mental health issues, he has supplied a Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form signed by his GP    even though he  continues working full time and has a very responsible and well paid job. 

For info, i am or have also pursued attachment of earnings order. charging orders etc.

As stated any advice would be welcome. 


      

lisyloo

Why would you assume items belong to him if he has a wife and children?

fatbelly

Terrier11 said:

Any advice would be welcome. 
I have a county court judgement in my favour for over £10k, against an individual.  The guy lives in a four bedroom detached house with wife and two children ( both over 18).  There is a car in the driveway worth £7-8k. I am checking who the registered  owner is and if there is any hire purchase on the vehicle. The guy appears to have a lot of material assets in house( my assumption ).

If the guy is the registered vehicle keeper and no hire purchase, then clearly the bailiffs would seize that.   


      

The V5 states that the registered keeper is not necessarily the owner so it is not at all clear, particularly as it seems to be of insufficient value and the debtor has evidenced his vulnerability

You already have a charge on his house? The debt is secure.

If he is employed and you have an attachment of earnings order then you can receive payment through that. The court may not agree to your latest application as The Attachment of Earnings Act 1971 states that “so long as the [attachment of earnings] order is in force, no execution for recovery of the [judgment] debt shall issue against any property of the [judgment] debt without the leave of the Country Court.”

macman

Secondhand consumer goods would go to auction and fetch a fraction of their real value. You might get a couple of thou at best. But bailiffs more often use the threat of removal to persuade the debtor to pay up cash instead, they don't want the hassle of seizure and sale of low-value goods. The car is by far the best asset to go for, but if it's in his wife's name or has finance on it, that is not an option. If he has any sense, he will already have transferred the ownership if he owned it outright.
But, if you already have or are pursuing an AOE order and a charge on the property, then why would you go this route as well?
A successful AOE order will bring you immediate payment, but a charge on the property could take decades to repay.

Terrier11

Thank you for your replies. I have an AOE against the debtor, which based on the judgement would take 12 years to repay( which i am not happy with). I was not aware of  what  AOE act 1971 stated, so that being the case, using the bailiffs is a non starter. 

Mckenna

Several things.
If the car is in his name, and he requires it for work it will not be seized, likewise with his GP endorsed condition the vehicle could be Motability- also won't be touched.
Any items such as laptops, phones etc won't be seized if required for work.
They won't take items that don't belong to the debtor - Such as things brought for the wife or children - so what are you hoping to take?
If they bailiffs are unsure who owns the items, standard guidance is they wont take them
They will take jointly owned items but the sale proceeds are then split ...

Likewise, without a court warrant he can simply not let them in.

I am interested to know how you have checked the vehicle, as my understanding of this civil issue you would not meet the bar for DVLA to release the details.

You have the AOE that is your best route

Mgman1965

Mckenna said:

Several things.
If the car is in his name, and he requires it for work it will not be seized, likewise with his GP endorsed condition the vehicle could be Motability- also won't be touched.
Any items such as laptops, phones etc won't be seized if required for work.
They won't take items that don't belong to the debtor - Such as things brought for the wife or children - so what are you hoping to take?
If they bailiffs are unsure who owns the items, standard guidance is they wont take them
They will take jointly owned items but the sale proceeds are then split ...

Likewise, without a court warrant he can simply not let them in.

I am interested to know how you have checked the vehicle, as my understanding of this civil issue you would not meet the bar for DVLA to release the details.

You have the AOE that is your best route

As I am aware the onus is on the debtor to prove items are NOT his, if he says the very expensive TV is not his but his, but say, his wife's, it's then down to her to then prove its hers by a receipt or show payment for it on her CC or the like.

Bailiffs are very disbelieving,  they've heard it all before, "it belongs to the wife/son/daughter/cat/dog" and will want proof of ownership from the alleged owner.

The cars V5 may be in the name of the wife, but if its only insured for the debtor to drive and /or the purchase receipt isn't in the alleged owners name, or there mysteriously isnt one, it then warrants seizing as the debtors. 

Saw one of those can't pay programmes once and the debtor claimed he sold the car to his wife the week before so they couldn't sieze it.

Bailiffs asked to see receipt for the "sale", he claimed there wasn't one,  so they asked to see the funds from the sale on his bank statement,  he claimed it was a cash sale, they asked to see the cash, no cash as he'd "spent it" already, 

Car seized.

JonVarnas

You have to take into account that bailiffs have to give prior notice before visting - at least 7 days. They can't just rock up at 6AM and start seizing stuff. So the debtor will have ample warning of what's going to happen and prepare, i.e, not answering the door, moving away any cars, etc.

Don't take those bailiff TV shows as gospel, they're just entertainment. If the bailiffs do get access to the property they'll probably enter into a payment plan with the debtor because it takes time and hassle to take goods, store them and take them to auction, and the returns wouldn't be that great either. Sometimes the won't even enforce it if the debtor hasn't got anything of value.

phillw

Mgman1965 said:
The cars V5 may be in the name of the wife, but if its only insured for the debtor to drive and /or the purchase receipt isn't in the alleged owners name, or there mysteriously isnt one, it then warrants seizing as the debtors. 

It's not that simple, one of those bailiff tv programs showed where they turned up to take a car due to non payment of parking tickets. The debtor said they had sold the car to their housemate, the evidence that proved it was that their housemate had received a fine for non payment of congestion charge a few days earlier.

The important thing is who owned the vehicle on the date the warrant was issued (and of course, they need to be able to find it).

User_101122

Sounds like your debtor is taking the p@&s out of you mate.
When the attachment of earnings order eventually fails (as they always do).

Get it escalated to the High Court and use High Court Enforcement Officers.  Their costs are astronomical for a debtor and from experience they are far more thorough than county court bailiffs.
County court bailiffs are salaried civil servants who get paid the same regardless of whether they collect the debt or not, they are therefore much more pink and fluffy when it comes to collecting YOUR money.
High Court Enforcement Officers tend to be self employed and they are paid on results.  They are far less likely to just walk away the minute the debtor says “mental health” or “vulnerable.”  

They will question everything and demand proof, if he’s put the car in the wife’s name to avoid payment they’ll get to the bottom of that and if there’s no evidence of funds being transferred etc they will levy it regardless.
Your other option would be to look a petitioning for your debtor’s bankruptcy if you know he has assets.
12 years is an unacceptable time to have to wait to get your money back.

mimi1234

Don't bother with bailiffs / high court enforcement officers.  The ones I used were a huge set of jokers.  They went only once instead of three times and it was just a quick chat and they left - none of the promised £5K that would be returned to me.  The amount of calls and emails I had to send them to get an update was taking the mick.  They billed me again at the end which I never paid. They said they would be sending someone round to get the £150 or £250 I owed them.  

The sneaky ******* who owed me the money was not stupid.  The swanky Audi was swiftly replaced with a clapped out banger and he was not in when they turned up so that was that.  The bailiffs never even went inside the house, it was a quick hi and bye!

Don't take the stupid Channel 5 programmes seriously. It's dramatised and from my experience, it doesn't happen!

Good luck.