Price Cap - Standing charge increases

Curiousgirl1

MWT said:

wrf12345 said:

The levy should come out of future company profits of those remaining not customer's pockets but it seems logical that if customers are to pay for broken companies they should also have a share of the profits. I don't see why they should have it both ways.

Why should those who were prudent and managed their companies well be forced to pay for the protection of customers who chose to go with high-risk, and generally poorly managed companies who were competing with them?

It would be fairer perhaps to recover the costs of the SoLR protect from just those customers who needed to be protected, instead of those who chose more wisely where to buy their energy?

... but I doubt you would agree to that so mutualising the cost, much like an insurance policy, seems to be the next best thing.

I partly agree with you, why should I have to pay extra on my bills because I chose to stay with companies that were unlikely to go bust. Doesn’t really seem fair 

Ultrasonic

MWT said:
It would be fairer perhaps to recover the costs of the SoLR protect from just those customers who needed to be protected, instead of those who chose more wisely where to buy their energy?

Looks like we cross-posted eariler. There is logic to this suggestion but it would need to be made clear as a possible change for the future rather than be applied retrospectively. Through the recent bout of supplier failures, customers chose which suppliers to use with the knowledge that they weren't taking a risk by doing so. People's choices, and the advice given by sites such as this, would have been different otherwise.

wild666

In my opinion any levies put on bills now will not be taken off when they money taken brings the levy to an end, just like the £40 per year levy on the £200 decrease in bills, it will be incorporated into the bills via either the SC or unit price.   

MWT

Ultrasonic said:

Looks like we cross-posted eariler. There is logic to this suggestion but it would need to be made clear as a possible change for the future rather than be applied retrospectively. Through the recent bout of supplier failures, customers chose which suppliers to use with the knowledge that they weren't taking a risk by doing so. People's choices, and the advice given by sites such as this, would have been different otherwise.

I do agree, it was most depressing to see the level of comments on here from people who willingly rode the cheap energy 'train' right into the buffers knowing full well it was unsustainable but still signed up with these suppliers anyway, just because they perceived there to be 'no risk'.

I do separate suppliers like Zog from most of the others though, they failed not because they didn't hedge, but because their wholesale supplier failed, taking their hedges with them.

QrizB

Bad headlines, though. I can imagine the mid-market tabloids now:

"Mrs X from Milton Keynes has received a £500 bill after her energy supplier went bust".

PennineAcute

MWT said:

Ultrasonic said:

Looks like we cross-posted eariler. There is logic to this suggestion but it would need to be made clear as a possible change for the future rather than be applied retrospectively. Through the recent bout of supplier failures, customers chose which suppliers to use with the knowledge that they weren't taking a risk by doing so. People's choices, and the advice given by sites such as this, would have been different otherwise.

I do agree, it was most depressing to see the level of comments on here from people who willingly rode the cheap energy 'train' right into the buffers knowing full well it was unsustainable but still signed up with these suppliers anyway, just because they perceived there to be 'no risk'.

I do separate suppliers like Zog from most of the others though, they failed not because they didn't hedge, but because their wholesale supplier failed, taking their hedges with them.

I have saved a heck of a lot by going with the cheaper suppliers.  Out of all I have been with, Yorkshire Energy, Symbio and Zog went bust.  Out of them all, the highest credit I had was £39 with Zog.  When I was with Utility Point, I was the first to create a referral post with MSE and I gained just under £4K in referrals.  I saw all that money and treated myself to a lovely no expense spared holiday.  Did I help in sending UP bust, who knows.

Putting UP to one side, even if I had not had the credit protection of SOLR, I would still have been up.  I am very careful with my direct debits - and even when I was with Symbio, I did not have a major problem with overpaying.  My spreadsheet works out an approximate figure for the full tariff, so I have a monthly price for leaving me with a zero balance on the end day.  Having the credit protection was a perk for me.  I am not well off and have to be careful how I spend my monthly income.

Some people have told me that my spreadsheet is too detailed, but it enables me to spot abnormailities as soon as they arise.  I do not like surprise bills.

I read with amazement how people say they are £200, 300 or higher in credit and have trouble getting it back.  I wish I could afford to allow my account to gain that amount of credit in the first place. 

I am now currently with EON Next and what I like about them is they give me the opportunity to adjust my DD amount without having to go through customer services.  At the moment, my spreadsheet is tellling me I can reduce my DD by £1.  If it is still like that at the end of the month then I will readjust.

To some people, these cheap suppliers were probably their saviour and helped them make ends meet.  I know many people, who, even before the current crisis, often had to think heat or eat.  They are now having to think even harder.  Until a couple of years ago, I too was on a very low income and trying to make my way through life of a weekly income I can now earn in just over three hours.  I know how they feel.  I can wear their shoes and feel every emotion.

If people do not complain about contributing to the WHD and not receiving it, then I think people should also not complain about people who may use the cheap suppliers' "no risk" as a way of making ends meet.

FatherTireseus

QrizB said:

Bad headlines, though. I can imagine the mid-market tabloids now:

"Mrs X from Milton Keynes has received a £500 bill after her energy supplier went bust".

Not forgetting the obligatory photo of Mrs X, holding a piece of paper that may or may not be an energy bill, with her saddest 'you all ought to feel sorry for me' face.

QrizB

FatherTireseus said:

QrizB said:

Bad headlines, though. I can imagine the mid-market tabloids now:

"Mrs X from Milton Keynes has received a £500 bill after her energy supplier went bust".

Not forgetting the obligatory photo of Mrs X, holding a piece of paper that may or may not be an energy bill, with her saddest 'you all ought to feel sorry for me' face.

Something like this?

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58746953 (when a cap increase by £139 to £1277 was newsworthy!)

MWT

PennineAcute said:

I read with amazement how people say they are £200, 300 or higher in credit and have trouble getting it back.  I wish I could afford to allow my account to gain that amount of credit in the first place. 

...

If people do not complain about contributing to the WHD and not receiving it, then I think people should also not complain about people who may use the cheap suppliers' "no risk" as a way of making ends meet.

If everyone was managing their finances prudently and were doing it 'to make ends meet' then the amounts the rest of us had to pay to cover the SoLR costs would be much lower.

Those you mention leaving hundreds in the hands of their suppliers are clearly not in the 'making ends meet' category, the answer may be to cap the amount that is protected so there is a risk for those not keeping an eye on their balance...

Ofgem were starting to move in that direction with the planned requirement to auto-refund customers with balances that were getting too high, it is time to make that a reality perhaps... 

PennineAcute

MWT said:

PennineAcute said:

I read with amazement how people say they are £200, 300 or higher in credit and have trouble getting it back.  I wish I could afford to allow my account to gain that amount of credit in the first place. 

...

If people do not complain about contributing to the WHD and not receiving it, then I think people should also not complain about people who may use the cheap suppliers' "no risk" as a way of making ends meet.

If everyone was managing their finances prudently and were doing it 'to make ends meet' then the amounts the rest of us had to pay to cover the SoLR costs would be much lower.

Those you mention leaving hundreds in the hands of their suppliers are clearly not in the 'making ends meet' category, the answer may be to cap the amount that is protected so there is a risk for those not keeping an eye on their balance...

Ofgem were starting to move in that direction with the planned requirement to auto-refund customers with balances that were getting too high, it is time to make that a reality perhaps... 

Fair comment.  But then you have the issue of people who use more energy will have a higher credit balance.  If Eon go bust on Wednesday, my credit would be around £100, if I did not reclaim my DD.  If I was on the SVT, I would be a lot more than £100 in credit.  If I had a higher usage, again I would have a credit greater than £100.  So how to we decide when a balance is too high?  If a balance is too high due to companies overestimating, then even if you set a minimum of no more than two month's credit as a maximum, the excess may not get refunded.

It does not help with companies like OVO.  They IMO survive by paying interest on an inflated credit balance, as it would probably be cheaper than borrowing the same amount of money.  Should they ever go bust, I feel for whoever takes over.

Everytime a company have gone bust on me, I have immediately stopped my DD.  Zog went bust on the day me DD went out.  I immediately reclaimed that through my bank.  Much better in my account and I can use it towards my now higher payments with the new company, than waiting to have it credited back to me and still having to find the money.