How to live without heating - save £000s

Herbyme

PennyForThem_2 said:

Oh for goodness sake!  HertsLad is giving sound, if extreme, advice.  Very,very few of us are going to follow to the letter everything HertsLad does.

But - layering up shouldn't be that difficult from what we own already - and, if needed, can supplement from cheapo supermarket and/or charity shop purchases.  What is first layer next to skin is not going to be seen.

His other advice may or maynot be useful or practical - but take it and follow, adapt, or ignore

Hear hear. 

All this has got me wondering, what do people who live in really cold countries wear indoors?
or are their homes so much better insulated that they don’t have to give it much thought?
one thing I haven’t heard discussed is the need to force builders to build much better insulated houses

PennyForThem_2

Herbyme said:

PennyForThem_2 said:

Oh for goodness sake!  HertsLad is giving sound, if extreme, advice.  Very,very few of us are going to follow to the letter everything HertsLad does.

But - layering up shouldn't be that difficult from what we own already - and, if needed, can supplement from cheapo supermarket and/or charity shop purchases.  What is first layer next to skin is not going to be seen.

His other advice may or maynot be useful or practical - but take it and follow, adapt, or ignore

Hear hear. 

All this has got me wondering, what do people who live in really cold countries wear indoors?
or are their homes so much better insulated that they don’t have to give it much thought?
one thing I haven’t heard discussed is the need to force builders to build much better insulated houses

Finland - up to quintiple glazing; heating supplied from central source
https://www.expat-finland.com/housing/housing_and_utilities.html

Sweden:
https://tekniskisolering.se/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/English-version-Branschstandard-Teknisk-Isolering-2020330-ver.1.01.pdf

chris_n

Herbyme said:

PennyForThem_2 said:

Oh for goodness sake!  HertsLad is giving sound, if extreme, advice.  Very,very few of us are going to follow to the letter everything HertsLad does.

But - layering up shouldn't be that difficult from what we own already - and, if needed, can supplement from cheapo supermarket and/or charity shop purchases.  What is first layer next to skin is not going to be seen.

His other advice may or maynot be useful or practical - but take it and follow, adapt, or ignore

Hear hear. 

All this has got me wondering, what do people who live in really cold countries wear indoors?
or are their homes so much better insulated that they don’t have to give it much thought?
one thing I haven’t heard discussed is the need to force builders to build much better insulated houses

Fairly cold where I live in winter (Austria 800m above sea level). In winter I wear long trousers, t-shirt and on really cold days maybe a jumper. No thermals when indoors. When I am working thermal merino top, mid layer and ski jacket, trousers and gloves. On really cold days (maybe 5 -10 days a season) the merino top is long sleeved,  a gilet under my jacket and thermal leggings.
The way most houses are constructed they have externally insulated concrete basements (so the foundation is unaffected by up to 2 metres of frozen ground). Above this externally insulated blockwork that has lots of cavities to trap air. Windows in new builds are normally triple glazed, a lot ot the older stock is double glazed. A lot of attention is paid to the details to prevent air ingress and cold bridging. Most modern buildings have underfloor heating and many are heated with heatpumps. 
The traditional housing with balconies and flowers are oriented towards the sun for free passive solar heating with the balconies providing shade in summer.

John464

deano2099 said:

 Think of your body like a hot water cylinder - you can add more insulation indefinitely but at some point it'll go cold if you don't pop the boiler on for five minutes.

I'm all in favour of exercise.
But your body is not the same as a hot water cylinder.
Because your body is always producing heat as long as you are alive.
I have kept warm whilst watching TV in a camper van at -9c by having enough layers of thick clothing.

in_my_wellies

My son in Denmark works from home. Hourly energy pricing. He has district heating @ 1p unit (but + 18p tax) if the wind blows, £1.12p at peak time when no wind. His average monthly bill, Sept to Aug was £32. All the flats got a refund of around £12 for 'correct usage' whatever that is. 
He has large triple glazed windows

John464

What the Tories don't want you to know is that the price we pay for electricity has far more to do with their privatised energy market than the war in Ukraine
If the price of gas goes up we pay more for electricity generated from wind 
Yes - really
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/01/generation-britain-long-term-illness-cold-poor-winter-cost-of-living-crisis
We need to stop Members of Parliament being hired by private companies who are ripping us off.

chris_n

John464 said:

What the Tories don't want you to know is that the price we pay for electricity has far more to do with their privatised energy market than the war in Ukraine
If the price of gas goes up we pay more for electricity generated from wind 
Yes - really
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/01/generation-britain-long-term-illness-cold-poor-winter-cost-of-living-crisis
We need to stop Members of Parliament being hired by private companies who are ripping us off.

The two biggest take aways from that article. The price of energy is set by the  highest price that is on the grid. We (you) have been keeping inefficient open circuit gas turbines ticking over (0.06GW currently) setting the price higher than more efficient closed cycle turbines. This despite the fact the export to France is 2.73GW. This can only be energy producers manipulating the market. The other biggie for me is that support for funding house insulation from central government was withdrawn by the Conservative government in 2013. I don't thing either of these shows a government that cares about it's people.

HertsLad

Alnat1 said:

Most people get visitors, friends come round for coffee/lunch/dinner, relatives stay over etc. This is a normal part of life for the majority of the population.

I can't imagine offering guests thermal long johns and a woolly hat as they come in the door. Also I'm sure after one winter I'd have no friends left if my house was like a fridge.

Sorry but yours isn't a lifestyle many would want to contemplate.

How about people who NEED to contemplate? It sounds like you are in the fortunate position, like I am, of being able to choose. I started this thread primarily in the hope it might help people who cannot afford to heat their homes, even if they would prefer to. i read articles suggesting something like 25% of UK households will not heat their homes during the coming winter (2022/23). So, for them, they are in the same position as me with a home at, or near, fridge temperature in the middle of winter. Presumably they can't invite people round, either. How will they cope? Some will ride round on buses all day, if they have a free bus pass. Some may go to public centres, including libraries, if set up for the purpose. Even then, they will need to sleep overnight in the freezing cold house. I explained how I stay perfectly warm at night, without using an electric blanket, other than for pre-warming. Most will probably lead a miserable existence, using sub-standard gear like acrylic blankets in an attempt to keep warm. Some will die of hypothermia. No, it isn't a lifestyle many would want to contemplate.

John464

Don't your visitors arrive in hats and coats during the winter?
I get that its inconvenient to dress up for the cold
But if we are to do more than virtue signalling (like Ukrainian flag waving), inconvenience is the price we need to pay to support Ukraine.  And think ourselves fortunate we are not suffering the 'inconveniences' that they are. 

John464

chris_n said:

 support for funding house insulation from central government was withdrawn by the Conservative government in 2013.

Well thats probably for the best considering how they were dishing out the grants.
Like their covid support, much of it going to fraudsters, cowboy builders, wealthy landlords, and propping up uneconomic businesses.  The worst housing tends to be owned by private landlords who should not be getting any more taxpayers money.
We can't solve the housing crisis without houses.  So we need to take planning decisions away from Nimbys so we can build enough.  If we had enough housing there would be some competition between landlords to provide decent (insulated) housing.