I have been paying my neighbours electric for 10 years without knowing and my landlord knew about it

Jack_bauer24

Helen-Back said:

Jack_bauer24 said:

Helen-Back said:

Grumpy_chap said:

If there are 5 adults in the property, why does the OP pay for everything?  There might be good reasons or good preferences but the other adults may need to make a contribution.

I live with my partner and kids, my youngest is almost an adult. I don't charge them for anything, but they were helping with the business we ran, family business. I'm too easy going on them I know. But I don't like asking for anything from them.

Not being funny, but why is your partner not contribute towards bills? can he/she look for work? or is he/she ill preventing them from working?  

My partner has a separate job, and works for the family business as well, our kids were working for us as well but they are now doing their own thing as they have been needed less and less over the past year.
I don't want anything from them anyway, I just want to pay my bills without being mugged off.

To be honest, I have no sympathy for you then. You should be asking your partner and your adult kids to contribute towards bills, but eh ho, that's your choice, so it's up to you but I don't feel sorry for you if you not asking for help from your partner towards bills. Not being rude, but that's just my opinion. 

Alderbank

steampowered said:
Personally I'd be tempted to deduct the cost of 10 years electric for the other flat from the rent 

Helen-Back said:
I believe they have committed criminal offence by making profit from utility for the approximate amount of £10k over the 10 years just got oil. Possibly more, without seeing invoices for oil I cannot guess. Electric is probably £5k, possibly more.

Personally I'd be tempted to deduct the cost of 10 years electric for the other flat from the rent

          

Reselling electricity is a regulated activity. You can give it away or charge anything up to the price you pay but you cannot make a profit.
You can charge the current tenant (not the landlord) at up to the price you paid provided you have meter readings for each period (you can only charge a maximum of the rate you paid at the time). You can charge previous tenants for their usage up to 6 years ago. You can't go back 10 years (you could ask but they have no obligation to pay).

The landlord was paying nothing for the other tenant's electricity so I think he was in breach of the regs to ask them for anything for electricity. I think the other tenant (not you) could claim that back, and hopefully they would then pass that on to you. However the landlord did not commit a criminal offence, it is a civil matter.

I don't think there are any regulations about the price you agreed to pay the landlord for heating oil. I am assuming you could have bought from another supplier or just used electricity? If you believe you were forced to buy only from him or had to pay a fixed amount regardless of usage you might have a claim - it depends on what the contract actually says.

I think you can ask present and former tenants to pay for electricity you have supplied to them but they may be reluctant to pay you and actually getting the money might be difficult.

JuanBallOfWimbledon

Jack_bauer24 said:

Helen-Back said:

Jack_bauer24 said:

Helen-Back said:

Grumpy_chap said:

If there are 5 adults in the property, why does the OP pay for everything?  There might be good reasons or good preferences but the other adults may need to make a contribution.

I live with my partner and kids, my youngest is almost an adult. I don't charge them for anything, but they were helping with the business we ran, family business. I'm too easy going on them I know. But I don't like asking for anything from them.

Not being funny, but why is your partner not contribute towards bills? can he/she look for work? or is he/she ill preventing them from working?  

My partner has a separate job, and works for the family business as well, our kids were working for us as well but they are now doing their own thing as they have been needed less and less over the past year.
I don't want anything from them anyway, I just want to pay my bills without being mugged off.

To be honest, I have no sympathy for you then. You should be asking your partner and your adult kids to contribute towards bills, but eh ho, that's your choice, so it's up to you but I don't feel sorry for you if you not asking for help from your partner towards bills. Not being rude, but that's just my opinion. 

But the point is that OP is possibly being charged incorrectly, isn’t it? I don’t think she’s asking for advice on managing her finances? I am struggling to make sense of exactly what’s happened, but I *think* she is saying that for a while she was paying the electric bill for both their house and the neighbouring property. For the past few years, while Op is still paying this bill, the landlord is charging the neighbour, then apparently deducting this from OP’s oil bill. However, the neighbour is being charged more than is being deducted from the oil bill, and OP has no proof of how much the oil costs to begin with, and thus has no idea if she is paying too much for this in lieu of the electric. 

I don’t know what the answer is, but she is asking for advice on how to deal with this, not sympathy. If I’m reading this correctly, the income/business is a secondary issue & who pays what towards utilities and rent in their household is irrelevant. I would also personally be wanting a contribution from all adults in the house, but the point she’s making is why should she change the way they do things because her landlord is *potentially* being dishonest/fraudulent about the charges. 

penners324

Find new premises for you business and a new home ASAP. 

Write down everything that's happened to your business and home.

Sue him for loss of business earnings.

penners324

Also take everything above to the local council, the police, trading standards, etc etc

deannagone

I'm afraid, however wrong the situation is, it doesn't look like there's much you can do but take the LL to Civil claims court to claim back the overcharging/not refunding you appropriately.  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/problems-with-your-energy-supply/what-your-landlord-can-charge-for-energy/ But this is going to be fairly complicated to prove.  And stressful if the LL is aggressive when you won't do what he wants, as you have said.

I think moving out has to be your best option, and will stop this happening anymore.  Get all the paperwork together that you can before you move out and consider what to do once you have left.

I agree that you haven't received fair treatment, but the only way to prevent this continuing is to leave.  Then, as long as you have a properly run rental property, you will be in control of who you get utilities from and paying only for what you use, at a proper rate.  Moving out could save you a fortune in a short space of time.  And you shouldn't be treated the way you are any longer.  That will help how you feel about life in general.  

Niv

Are you using an oil fueled aga or something? I have lived in a 400 year old, 5 bed house for the last 5.5years and the average cost of oil is £75pm (obviously recently oil has gone up so i expect that average to increase but no way will it get near what you are paying!).

BikingBud

JuanBallOfWimbledon said:

Jack_bauer24 said:

Helen-Back said:

Jack_bauer24 said:

Helen-Back said:

Grumpy_chap said:

If there are 5 adults in the property, why does the OP pay for everything?  There might be good reasons or good preferences but the other adults may need to make a contribution.

I live with my partner and kids, my youngest is almost an adult. I don't charge them for anything, but they were helping with the business we ran, family business. I'm too easy going on them I know. But I don't like asking for anything from them.

Not being funny, but why is your partner not contribute towards bills? can he/she look for work? or is he/she ill preventing them from working?  

My partner has a separate job, and works for the family business as well, our kids were working for us as well but they are now doing their own thing as they have been needed less and less over the past year.
I don't want anything from them anyway, I just want to pay my bills without being mugged off.

To be honest, I have no sympathy for you then. You should be asking your partner and your adult kids to contribute towards bills, but eh ho, that's your choice, so it's up to you but I don't feel sorry for you if you not asking for help from your partner towards bills. Not being rude, but that's just my opinion. 

But the point is that OP is possibly being charged incorrectly, isn’t it? I don’t think she’s asking for advice on managing her finances? I am struggling to make sense of exactly what’s happened, but I *think* she is saying that for a while she was paying the electric bill for both their house and the neighbouring property. For the past few years, while Op is still paying this bill, the landlord is charging the neighbour, then apparently deducting this from OP’s oil bill. However, the neighbour is being charged more than is being deducted from the oil bill, and OP has no proof of how much the oil costs to begin with, and thus has no idea if she is paying too much for this in lieu of the electric. 

I don’t know what the answer is, but she is asking for advice on how to deal with this, not sympathy. If I’m reading this correctly, the income/business is a secondary issue & who pays what towards utilities and rent in their household is irrelevant. I would also personally be wanting a contribution from all adults in the house, but the point she’s making is why should she change the way they do things because her landlord is *potentially* being dishonest/fraudulent about the charges. 

Absolutely get your first bit but if all adults in the house work for the same company and the company pays a significant part of the bills, requesting payment from other family members is just playing shops.

Pay the bills once out of the business and split what is left according to an agreed formula.

I suppose the nearest comparison might be a fishing boat where, heating, lighting, fuel and food are sunk costs and deducted as overheads from the sale price that is achieved for the catch and then split the remainder between the crew.

Yet some of the fuel that is being delivered to the boat is disappearing into another boat, thereby diminishing the profits.

Seems reasonable split to me but absolutely should challenge those unknown and potentially unbound costs.

brianposter

Helen-Back said:

Only after 10 years of living here, I discover from my landlord that I am meant to charge my neighbour (his tenant) for their usage, .............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
For the last year or so, my landlord has been deducting the electric use from his tenant, from my oil bill and my landlord then issues a separate bill to his tenant for the electric and oil. ............................................................................................................

What does the second sentence mean ?

getmore4less

Yes the business is run from where I live, the landlord owns warehouses on the land and I rent one of these from him. The problem is that the unit I use is falling down, not secure and if I said it leaks when it rains would be a big understatement.

Some stock has been ruined from the water and mould, I can no longer stock high priced items for obvious reasons, I only put up with it as I was promised a new unit once built.
I have been waiting for the new units for 2 years, but when they were built he rented them to other businesses instead.


There are multiple issues but the main one is why have you let your business run down?

Even a few £k of dodgy billing will be a drop in the ocean to the business losses if you don't get your act together


1/2m turnover what profits is this generating?

You should have moved product to new premises the first time you had something damaged.

2 years not fixing something in your control.