Blatant Sony breach of contract

DreamweaverB

Short version

I bought (online) a high-end Sony projector for my home cinema which for £6,500 included 5 Years Prime Support, the main benefit of this being an "Express Loan Unit" for the duration of any repair. Within 12 months the projector became faulty but instead of receiving a loan unit within a couple of days, I ended up without a usable projector for almost 7 weeks.

Remedy?

For such an expensive item, I think it is completely unacceptable I was unable to use it for so long when the deal and promise was that I was entitled to a loan unit but what's the best thing to do about it?

Do I claim "not as described" and ask for a full or 4/5 refund?

Do I claim "unsatisfactory quality" and ask for a full or 4/5 refund? (This is actually the second time the projector became faulty)

One problem is I don't really want a refund, I paid for and want a working high-end 4K projector with confidence that if it goes faulty I'll be back up and running within a reasonably short time.

It just seems so wrong that you can pay so much money and then be so flagrantly denied what you paid for. I know I'm angry right now so am genuinely interested in what other people not so emotionally attached would do and what people's thought are on my consumer rights?

DreamweaverB

Longer version

The specific item I bought was described as "Sony VPL-VW590ES (Black) (Inc. 5 Years Prime Support)". It was bought (online) from my favourite High Street AV specialist but they directed me to the manufacturer for support.

The fault was a loud intermittent clicking noise when the projector was in use and the image on screen would dim at the same time. On return the repair paperwork confirmed the projector lens was replaced.

Just before Christmas Sony diagnosed the unit would need to be returned to their service centre and sent me a list of questions, the first one after confirming name and address being "Do you have a back-up model?" to which I confirmed no. They then said they would arrange collection and send me a shipping label.

Over a week later I was contacted by Sony claiming they had attempted collection on Christmas Eve. When I pointed out I hadn't received any shipping label, there were 8 people here all day, we had multiple CCTV in operation and no-one had attempted collection they went quiet for another week.

Another week later DHL did turn up but I still hadn't received any shipping label so they weren't able to collect the unit. I immediately advised Sony of the issue and reminded them I needed a loan unit. 

Almost two weeks later Sony finally replied again and I had to reiterate that I still hadn't received any shipping label and that I needed a loan unit. The Sony agent confirmed they would send me a label and "the faulty device needs to be sent to our Authorized Service Center first and diagnosed then our loan unit can be sent to you."

Eventually a label arrived, the unit was collected and returned to Sony. Sony advised they were waiting for parts but gave no confirmation a loan unit was on its way. I chased them up again to be eventally told that parts were due to arrive a week later and that "it will take longer to arrange for the loan unit than waiting for the repair completion"!

I politely pointed out that was not what the Support agreement stipulated, it had already been a month and asked the agent to escalate the matter. I was then fobbed off with "we are looking into the matter" and a further 11 days later the repaired projector was finally returned so in total almost 7 weeks from when they diagnosed it was faulty.

Remedy?

For such an expensive item, I think it is completely unacceptable I was unable to use it for so long when the deal and promise was that I was entitled to an express loan unit but what's the best thing to do about it?

Do I claim "not as described" and ask for a full or 4/5 refund on the basis I did use it for a year before it came apparent that the five year Prime Support was not as described?

Do I claim "unsatisfactory quality" and ask for a full or 4/5 refund on the basis I did use it for a year? (This is actually the second time within 12 months this expensive projector became faulty - the first time was within a few weeks of purchase so it was just replaced with no fuss.)

One problem is I don't really want a refund, I paid for and want a working high-end 4K projector with confidence that if it goes faulty I'll be back up and running within a reasonably short time.

But I have lost confidence in this particular model and if it does go faulty again I currently have zero confidence Sony will honour the agreement next time either. How do I remedy that? 

On top of all this I feel bad for the retailer being out of pocket when it's their agent who is letting the side down but what can you do?

It just seems so wrong that you can pay so much money and then be so flagrantly denied what you paid for. I know I'm angry right now so am genuinely interested in what other people not so emotionally attached would do and what people's thought are on my consumer rights?

TadleyBaggie

Your consumer rights lie with the retailer and not Sony.

cx6

Do you have a 'Prime Support Terms and Conditions' document?

What does it say about 'Express Loan Units' - are they guaranteed or just on a best efforts basis? Is any timescale quoted for getting an Express unit to a customer?

A contract can only be breached if there is a term in it to breach (if you see what I mean)

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

As you are outside the 30 day short term right to reject then the trader can repair or replace in the first instance. 

It's unclear if the current repair was carried out as a manufacturer warranty claim or done via the retailer but either way you currently have a working item and as such consumer rights have been fulfilled in that respect.

The promise of a loan is presumably something the manufacture offer rather than the retailer? A warranty is in addition to your consumer rights and bound by the terms of the warranty, what do Sony say will happen if they can't arrange a loan during repair? 

Where the party offering the warranty fail to abide by it's terms presumably it is for that party to resolve (did you pay extra for this Prime Support and if so who did you pay?).

I fully understand, and agree, it's frustrating to buy such an expensive item with the promise of being covered by a loan during repair and then not getting what was promised but your claim appears to come down to one of loss of enjoyment, that can be a valid claim in certain situations (I don't have the knowledge to say if it would apply here though) and even if it did there wouldn't be much of a monetary value to the claim IMHO.

If the current repair was carried out via the trader, should it fail again you can exercise the final right to reject for a refund (which after 6 months can be reduced to account for ownership). 

Does Sony have a complaints department where you could air your grievance in the hope of some form of good will. 

TELLIT01

Get the address of the Chief Exec at Sony UK and copy the information you provided here to them.  Problems being escalated to that level often prompts a more sympathetic reaction from the customer services department.

Alderbank

Sony Prime Support is a b2b service for professional users. They ask for your VAT number when you register. It is used by universities and other teaching institutions to ensure that their AV equipment is always available.

I think that Sony will say the service is not governed by consumer rights legislation.

DreamweaverB

cx6 said:

What does it say about 'Express Loan Units' - are they guaranteed or just on a best efforts basis? Is any timescale quoted for getting an Express unit to a customer?

"Schedule of Services: Express Loan Unit: Where the issue cannot be resolved by the Helpdesk, we will arrange for a loan unit to be shipped to an agreed address.

You will receive a loan unit until the repaired unit is returned to You. We target to despatch the loan unit the same day if diagnosed before 15:00 CET Monday to Friday. The loan unit may not be the same model; however We will make all reasonable effort to restore Your specific requirements for functionality.

Within 5 working days of the repaired unit being returned to You please make the loan unit available at ground level for courier collection. Loan units must be returned with all supplied accessories and parts, failure to do so may result in an additional charge."

There's no guarantee as such but similarly no "where available" get-out for Sony.

The phrases "we will arrange for a loan unit to be shipped" and "We target to despatch the loan unit the same day" are pretty clear as to what the intent of the policy is (and what I thought I was paying for) and it's also pretty clear to me that Sony had no intention of honouring it.

Alderbank said:

Sony Prime Support is a b2b service for professional users. They ask for your VAT number when you register. It is used by universities and other teaching institutions to ensure that their AV equipment is always available.

It may be a B2B service as well but I am definitely a consumer, purchased as a consumer, signed up to PrimeSupport as a consumer and did not supply any VAT number. There's no get-out for Sony there. 

If I'd been a business that would probably make it easier for me as Sony would simply be in breach of contract and I'd potentially be able to simply roll back the contract. 

One of the complications is I bought the projector including the support from a retailer but registered/agreed/signed the support package directly with Sony. There's no question in my mind that Sony are the retailer's agent but is the retailer still liable for their agent's breach?

Manxman_in_exile

s 3.1 of the T&Cs of Prime Support says: 

"3.1 This Agreement and the provision of Support Services only apply if You are receiving the Support Services in the course of a business."

PrimeSupport-TCs-2021-EN.pdf (sony.eu)

Did you tick anything at any stage to say you had read and understood* the T&Cs?  Or when you talk about "Sony Prime Support", do you mean some other support package that Sony provide?

I would suggest that if you are sure that it was either clear to Sony (or the retailer*) or that it should have been clear to them, that you were a consumer and not a business, then you should get a refund of whatever the "value" of Prime Support is, as it was clearly mis-sold to you.

What confuses me a bit is who you bought Prime Support from?  You say it was included in the purchase price (so did you buy it from the retailer) or was it a separate but related transaction with Sony?

If it was included in the price, maybe you have taken advantage of an offer you weren't eligible for - and the retailer didn't realise this?

*If you can establish you were a genuine consumer you may noy be bound by the T&Cs.  But I think you'd still only be eligible to get a refund on the price of Prime support...

born_again

3. Agreement, Registration and the Service Period
 3.1 This Agreement and the provision of Support Services only apply if You are receiving the Support Services in the course of a business.
3.2 In order for the Support Services to be delivered Registration must be completed. For the avoidance of doubt, this Agreement is therefore not binding on either party until Registration has been completed.
3.3 We will treat Registration by You as your agreement to the provision of the Support Services on the terms of this Agreement and confirmation that You are receiving the Support Services in the course of a business and are not acting as a consumer

DreamweaverB

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

It's unclear if the current repair was carried out as a manufacturer warranty claim or done via the retailer but either way you currently have a working item and as such consumer rights have been fulfilled in that respect.

The promise of a loan is presumably something the manufacture offer rather than the retailer? A warranty is in addition to your consumer rights and bound by the terms of the warranty, what do Sony say will happen if they can't arrange a loan during repair? 

If the current repair was carried out via the trader, should it fail again you can exercise the final right to reject for a refund (which after 6 months can be reduced to account for ownership). 

Yes I finally have a working item but I'm not sure that my consumer rights have been fulfilled. The whole thing is complicated by the two parties involved and who is responsible for what which is why I'm garnering opinion here. 

I didn't just purchase a projector, I specifically purchased a "Sony VPL-VW590ES (Black) (Inc. 5 Years Prime Support)". I could have bought the projector elsewhere for a cheaper price (I can't remember what that price was though) without the 5 Years Prime Support.

The "promise of a loan unit" was part of the Prime Support details, it wasn't made clear at the point of purchase who would supply the loan but I assumed Sony. The subsequent Support agreement simply stated Sony would supply a loan unit, there was nothing about what would happen if they didn't.

The repair was carried out by Sony after the retailer advised me to contact them. This is the second time the unit has failed, the first time was 11 months ago when it was replaced, does that count as the first "repair" and this time as the second repair? In hindsight does that mean I should have rejected it when it failed this "second" time? 

I'll try to find the chief exec's office details and contact them.