Where do I stand.

scotslad2k

I need clear advice, I am a 54 year old guy with autism, Anxiety and in turn panic attacks. I have claimed benefits most of my life and currently still on esa. About four years ago I started teaching myself to carve wood which was good to keep my anxiety down a little. I started showing friends and family what I was doing and asking if I would sell my carvings. I looked into it online but all I seem to find is that it's illegal to receive anything for crafted items I make. All I wanted was to be able to replace the wood or buy a new tool if I needed to replace one. 

Believe me when I say, I want to have a job and I do get help from Nation Autistic Society and their prospects team but I'm just too old an unskilled for anyone to want to take a chance and with UK government removing funding from charities, NAS has focused on 18 - 25. 

I feel I am being punished for having mental health problems. 


There doesn't seem to be a clear yes or no as to if I can get a little back. At the moment I'm giving my carvings away and having to refuse anything in return which annoys people and in turn upsets me. I don't want to directly contact the DWP as I have been told that if I do it will trigger me being transphered to UC which would kill me mentally.

So, please, I'm begging, I need clear advice or do I just give up carving, even NAS have had no clear answer from DWP on this.

If anyone wants proof of my carving you can find it on Instagram. Just look for scotslad2k.

comeandgo

Where did you find that it’s illegal to sell your work?  What sort of wood are you using?

sheramber

You can do permitted work while on ESA but are limited to hours and income.

https://www.mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org/en/welfare-benefits/am-i-eligible-for-employment-support-allowance-esa/what-work-am-i-permitted-to-do-on-esa/

sammyjammy

Just looked at your insta page, you clearly have talent 

scotslad2k

comeandgo said:

Where did you find that it’s illegal to sell your work?  What sort of wood are you using? 

Anyone on benefits cannot sell crafted items or do work unless the DWP is notified, any money over £5 per week is removed from my benefits. So, in one week, if I make 2 carvings and sell them for £20 each, I will have £35 removed from my benefits for that week. That money would have bought more wood to then do the same the following week and so the cycle continues. All I want to do is fund my hobby, which is what carving is, NOBODY can make a living from carving, it's impossible. Minimum wage per hour + materials so that's £9.50 per hour plus the cost of the wood, say £5 for a small caricature. I takes me a total of 3 hours to carve, plus painting etc. so that would be £33.50 with no profit. Nobody pays that for a 4 inch carving, they would sell for about £10 each, do you understand now?

scotslad2k

sheramber said:

You can do permitted work while on ESA but are limited to hours and income.

Nope, that won't work, I have already had it looked into by National Autistic Society because it's a hobby and not a job, it is impossible to work fixed hours and have fixed amounts for carvings as that would constitute self employed and running a business. Its not a business as I said, it's a hobby and all I want to do is make enough selling a few items to buy more wood. Carving is a therapy for me as it helps with my stress and keeps me focused with nobody telling me what to do and how I should do it. Therefor, it's not work so 'permitted work' doesn't apply here.

Also, if I were to turn it into a business it would run at a loss, generate more stress and anxiety and no longer give me enjoyment.

poppy12345

scotslad2k said:

comeandgo said:

Where did you find that it’s illegal to sell your work?  What sort of wood are you using? 

Anyone on benefits cannot sell crafted items or do work unless the DWP is notified, any money over £5 per week is removed from my benefits.

That's not correct, i see you're claiming ESA so permitted work rules will apply to you, this means you can earn  up to £143 per week (less than 16 hours per week)  without your ESA being affected.

See link. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Permitted-Work-Rules

You do need to tell DWP that you're working and you'll need to fill out the LW1 form. You just need to be aware that if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you're claiming ESA then it could go against you the next time you're assessed.

Spoonie_Turtle

If you are saying it's illegal because it turns out at under minimum wage, that's not the case.   The NMW is not a legal requirement for self-employed people.  Otherwise realistically virtually no crafters of any kind would ever be able to run a business.  https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/who-gets-the-minimum-wage

Edit: actually no, I see you acknowledge that already.  Is the sticking point the definition of 'work'?  Maybe it would help to view it as ad hoc or casual work - you're putting in effort and receiving money for the goods.  You don't have to run it as a business (although if you sell items totalling over £1,000 you would have to register for self-assessment as a sole trader with HMRC - but as long as you keep records of your income and expenses that shouldn't be too onerous.  There's no requirement for you to make a profit, and if you don't then you certainly won't have any tax to pay!) 

It doesn't have to be run as a business, you are allowed to sell things you've made as part of a hobby.

With the hour threshold, hours can be averaged as long as the earnings aren't over the limit.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/959415/admv3.pdf

I see there's a lower limit of £20 but I have no idea what that actually means in practice; I can't see what difference it makes whether people earn £20 or £120.  

calcotti

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I see there's a lower limit of £20 but I have no idea what that actually means in practice;

It doesn't mean anything. It's  hangover from when you could earn the low earnings limit (£20) for an unlimited period or the higher earnings limit (16 hours x NMW) for a maximum of 52 weeks.
The time restriction on the upper limit was then removed (in April 2017) rendering the lower limit irrelevant.

scotslad2k

poppy12345 said:

scotslad2k said:

comeandgo said:

Where did you find that it’s illegal to sell your work?  What sort of wood are you using? 

Anyone on benefits cannot sell crafted items or do work unless the DWP is notified, any money over £5 per week is removed from my benefits.

That's not correct, i see you're claiming ESA so permitted work rules will apply to you, this means you can earn  up to £143 per week (less than 16 hours per week)  without your ESA being affected.

See link. 

You do need to tell DWP that you're working and you'll need to fill out the LW1 form. You just need to be aware that if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you're claiming ESA then it could go against you the next time you're assessed.

It's not works and isn't covered by permitted work. For permitted work you need fixed hours less than 16 hours a week and fixed amount for work done. I carve for pleasure and as a way to help my anxiety. People want to buy some carvings, a carving could take days of on and off carving which could be 25 minutes one day to 10 hours another or no hours. This would mean that is I got to 15 hours and 59 minutes in a week, I would need to stop and not do anything for that week as well as phone the DWP and announce the hours for that week. Also, the amount someone would pay is down to that person and not me. If I were to add up hours worked @ national minimum wage plus materials, nobody would buy anything. Wood carving isn't profitable as an income. It's an artistic hobby.

poppy12345

When you're self employed it's not so much the hours but your earnings, which mustn't be more than £143 per week. Which ever way you look at it, even if it's just a hobby it's still permitted work because you're earning money.