Neighbours fire

euanovsky

I live in a (leasehold) apartment building in England. A fire broke out in my immediate upstairs neighbour apartment earlier. The entire building had to evacuate. The fire was brought under control and put out in just over and hour. Luckily no one in the building was seriously injured.

My flat suffered no direct fire damage but it did suffer some damages:
1. Firefighters broke down my front door to check if the fire had spread to my flat (it didn't). The front door is a fire door which prevents fire from spreading (and it worked - the fire was contained in one flat). The lack of it means we are not allowed to stay in our flat at the moment as it is a fire hazard to us if another fire broke out or a hazard to others if a fire broke out at ours. My OH and I are staying in a hotel for the last week and in the foreseeable future until the front door is replaced. This is extremely inconvenient for both of us.

2. Part of the upstairs balcony has melted into ours as such our balcony is declared to be structurally unsafe. Initial examination suggests this will require extensive of work to get it repaired. 

3. Significant water damage to the walls, flooring and carpet from when the firefighter tried to put out the fire

4. Lingering smoke smell

The managing agent of the building (appointed by the freeholder) has been helpful so far in assuring us that the building insurance would cover all the above damages. They have also told us they would liaise with the insurer to provide temporary accommodation for us. Currently they have advised us to book for hotels and claim back the expenses later which is what we are doing. This is a pragmatic approach but has put us under financial strain.

The cause of fire is due to unattended barbecue in the balcony. Our lease specifically prohibits any kind of open fire in the balcony. So the fire started not by accident but by negligence, not to mention they were in breach of the lease. For information my neighbour is renting and they are not the leaseholder. 

I believe the building insurance premium (covered by the service charge) and my own content insurance premium are going to go up as a result of this incident. The fire has also caused my OH and me emotional distress and inconvenience and I have to take time off work to deal with the aftermath. There is also the uncertainty that the building insurance will indeed pay for all the damages as the managing agent suggested. 

My question is: what recourse do I have? Can I sue my neighbour for negligence? Can I take legal actions against them for emotional distress and any overdraft fee and/or recoup the difference in the insurance premium in future years? 

We were hoping to sell too but it’s looking like we will probably have to wait a year or two now.

I do understand that we are lucky in a way that the only real damage is financial and emotional and there are no loss of lives in this incident. However I believe my neighbour should be held responsible for this mess. 

Typhoon2000

Were the neighbours negligent or did they start the fire deliberately?

euanovsky

Typhoon2000 said:

Were the neighbours negligent or did they start the fire deliberately?

I don’t think anyone would start a fire deliberately. I think they probably just started a barbecue and forgot about it.

koalakoala

I’m so sorry this has happened to you. I certainly wouldn’t be paying for hotels upfront, it is up to the insurer to sort you out accomodation surely

Sandtree

euanovsky said:

My question is: what recourse do I have? Can I sue my neighbour for negligence? Can I take legal actions against them for emotional distress and any overdraft fee and/or recoup the difference in the insurance premium in future years?  

Anyone can sue anyone they want

Emotional distress... what medication has your doctor put you on? Have you been referred for talking therapy or such?

Assuming you havent talked about need to go to a psych hospital etc then forget that one... with the new soft tissue accident tariffs introduced minor psychological damages that are going to last 2 years get £130 if backed up by relevant medical evidence and thats when its combined with a physical injury.

Fortunately the courts also accept that "life happens" and so claims for "inconvenience" are typically dismissed too unless its something extreme.

To be able to claim compensation there is the question of remoteness and causal chain... so someone runs me over I can sue them for my injury however my employer cannot sue them for the 2 months of sick pay they had to give me because its too remote. The fact you dont have savings is not the fault of the tenants and so I would argue it is too remote (certainly i've never paid them to any claimant)

Future insurance premiums in principle could be a valid head of claim but how are you going to evidence what they will be? In 4 years time are you going to go with an insurer that asks for 3 years or 5 years of claims history? I've paid token amounts in the past but its really been go away money than thinking they've provided sufficient evidence (or made a global offer and therefore saying if any particular head of claim was accepted or rejected is unnecessary)

euanovsky

Sandtree said:

euanovsky said:

My question is: what recourse do I have? Can I sue my neighbour for negligence? Can I take legal actions against them for emotional distress and any overdraft fee and/or recoup the difference in the insurance premium in future years?  

Anyone can sue anyone they want

Emotional distress... what medication has your doctor put you on? Have you been referred for talking therapy or such?

Assuming you havent talked about need to go to a psych hospital etc then forget that one... with the new soft tissue accident tariffs introduced minor psychological damages that are going to last 2 years get £130 if backed up by relevant medical evidence and thats when its combined with a physical injury.

Fortunately the courts also accept that "life happens" and so claims for "inconvenience" are typically dismissed too unless its something extreme.

To be able to claim compensation there is the question of remoteness and causal chain... so someone runs me over I can sue them for my injury however my employer cannot sue them for the 2 months of sick pay they had to give me because its too remote. The fact you dont have savings is not the fault of the tenants and so I would argue it is too remote (certainly i've never paid them to any claimant)

Future insurance premiums in principle could be a valid head of claim but how are you going to evidence what they will be? In 4 years time are you going to go with an insurer that asks for 3 years or 5 years of claims history? I've paid token amounts in the past but its really been go away money than thinking they've provided sufficient evidence (or made a global offer and therefore saying if any particular head of claim was accepted or rejected is unnecessary)

Thanks that is sort of broadly in line with what I was thinking. Just for my education how come people are able to sue for this kind of damage in the US but not in the UK?

another_casualty

Sorry to hear about this ..

If you have legal protection on your contents insurance , it may be worth giving them a call
It'll be interesting to see what the landlord does with them tenants as they have broken rules. Also interesting to see what the managing agents say to the landlord . 
I have no idea myself unfortunately .

Is there a sinking fund ?  How many are in your block ? Again not sure , but it would seem that the cost of repair would be split equally in your service charges. 

I stand to be corrected by other posters with more knowledge 
Hope things are manageable and resolved quicker than expected ..

TELLIT01

euanovsky said:

Sandtree said:

euanovsky said:

My question is: what recourse do I have? Can I sue my neighbour for negligence? Can I take legal actions against them for emotional distress and any overdraft fee and/or recoup the difference in the insurance premium in future years?  

Anyone can sue anyone they want

Emotional distress... what medication has your doctor put you on? Have you been referred for talking therapy or such?

Assuming you havent talked about need to go to a psych hospital etc then forget that one... with the new soft tissue accident tariffs introduced minor psychological damages that are going to last 2 years get £130 if backed up by relevant medical evidence and thats when its combined with a physical injury.

Fortunately the courts also accept that "life happens" and so claims for "inconvenience" are typically dismissed too unless its something extreme.

To be able to claim compensation there is the question of remoteness and causal chain... so someone runs me over I can sue them for my injury however my employer cannot sue them for the 2 months of sick pay they had to give me because its too remote. The fact you dont have savings is not the fault of the tenants and so I would argue it is too remote (certainly i've never paid them to any claimant)

Future insurance premiums in principle could be a valid head of claim but how are you going to evidence what they will be? In 4 years time are you going to go with an insurer that asks for 3 years or 5 years of claims history? I've paid token amounts in the past but its really been go away money than thinking they've provided sufficient evidence (or made a global offer and therefore saying if any particular head of claim was accepted or rejected is unnecessary)

Thanks that is sort of broadly in line with what I was thinking. Just for my education how come people are able to sue for this kind of damage in the US but not in the UK?

Because the laws of the US don't apply in the UK, and vice versa.  The USA is a much more litigious society than the UK.

Ectophile

In the USA they have jury trials for civil cases.  If you can give a good enough sob story to the jury, they will take pity on you and award millions of dollars in damaged for your hurt feelings.

In this country, it's a judge, who has heard it all before, and is only interested in actual losses.

Emmia

euanovsky said:

Sandtree said:

euanovsky said:

My question is: what recourse do I have? Can I sue my neighbour for negligence? Can I take legal actions against them for emotional distress and any overdraft fee and/or recoup the difference in the insurance premium in future years?  

Anyone can sue anyone they want

Emotional distress... what medication has your doctor put you on? Have you been referred for talking therapy or such?

Assuming you havent talked about need to go to a psych hospital etc then forget that one... with the new soft tissue accident tariffs introduced minor psychological damages that are going to last 2 years get £130 if backed up by relevant medical evidence and thats when its combined with a physical injury.

Fortunately the courts also accept that "life happens" and so claims for "inconvenience" are typically dismissed too unless its something extreme.

To be able to claim compensation there is the question of remoteness and causal chain... so someone runs me over I can sue them for my injury however my employer cannot sue them for the 2 months of sick pay they had to give me because its too remote. The fact you dont have savings is not the fault of the tenants and so I would argue it is too remote (certainly i've never paid them to any claimant)

Future insurance premiums in principle could be a valid head of claim but how are you going to evidence what they will be? In 4 years time are you going to go with an insurer that asks for 3 years or 5 years of claims history? I've paid token amounts in the past but its really been go away money than thinking they've provided sufficient evidence (or made a global offer and therefore saying if any particular head of claim was accepted or rejected is unnecessary)

Thanks that is sort of broadly in line with what I was thinking. Just for my education how come people are able to sue for this kind of damage in the US but not in the UK?

Different countries with different laws... 

Alderbank

Ectophile said:

In the USA they have jury trials for civil cases.  If you can give a good enough sob story to the jury, they will take pity on you and award millions of dollars in damaged for your hurt feelings.

In the UK we have jury trials for civil cases. In both administrations damages are awarded for hurt feelings where the law allows.

In this country, it's a judge, who has heard it all before, and is only interested in actual losses.

In the USA it's a judge who is equally well trained and experienced.