Moving out - how to proceed?

JohnBravo

I hope my final question is what if the landlord who is the expat and lives abroad refuses to return the deposit and/or I decide to go to court?

The property is on sale and I reckon it is going to be sold rather than rented. The agency is busier now or there is more potential buyers so I reckon it is going to be sold pretty soon.

How can I recover this money in that situation?
Should I demand some security in that case before I hand over all the keys?

JohnBravo

So they did the inspection and the landlord decided to charge me about £350. I have replied that the deposit has not been protected and since then the landlord has caved in. I have mentioned that I left over £200 on the prepayment electric meter on old tariff which with the current rates is worth twice as much.
Before they started increasing rates I topped up the meter and a fob for max 2x £250.

What should I do at this stage? Email the landlord and ask why there is no response or start looking for a solicitor?

TripleH

So the deposit was never protected?

Contact the letting agency in writing and ask them to refund the deposit in 5 working days or you'll start legal action to recover the funds.

I'd the start an online claim (money claim online?). You shouldn't need a solicitor for this.

JohnBravo

TripleH said:

So the deposit was never protected?

Contact the letting agency in writing and ask them to refund the deposit in 5 working days or you'll start legal action to recover the funds.

I'd the start an online claim (money claim online?). You shouldn't need a solicitor for this.

Al one point the LL admitted he didn't I think it was over a year ago when I asked about the protection. I think I checked the schemes myself at the time but I was still no convinced so I asked. I also don't remember the agency or the landlord sending me the reference of that protection which would be over 6 years ago.

JohnBravo

By the way should I claim against the LA or LL or both?

I think the LL agreed to return the deposit but it looks like plays for time.

canaldumidi

See comments bold/underlined below

Remind us - do you have a contractual or statutory periodic tenancy?
SPT  see below
What does the tenancy agreement say happens at the end of the fixed term? What notice does the tenancy agreement say is required (if specified)? Please quote.
"If at the end of the tenancy tenant(s) want to continue the contract and tenant(s) and tenant(s) have not received from agent / landlord 2 (two) months notice to end the tenancy, this will carry on from month to month as a periodic tenancy"  I copied the whole contract here, it is on page 1

so this appears to be a CPT not a SPT. The contract specifies that following the fixed term a periodic tenancy arises.

Does the contract specify anywhere what notice is required?

How much is the additional rent the LL is requesting? ~£300

How important to you is maintaining good relations? not important

The 1 months notice you served - I asume you aligned this with tenancy periods? What date did you serve it and to expire on what date? (exact dates)?  technically it should be 2 months (as you said in the past) 15/07/2022 but I put 15/06/2022 because this is what suits me.

Please answer the questions: what exact date did you serve the notice?

What exact date did you put for the notice to expire?

...... The plan is to vacate around 1-3rd of June.

Your notice must give an exact date or it is invalid. 'around 1-3 June' is not valid notice.

What are your tenancy period dates?

Please aswer the question: What are your tenancy period dates?

The reason for clarifying the notice you served, the type of tenancy, and the notice required, is that the landlord could argue you still owe rent since you have either not served notice, or have not served sufficient notice.

JohnBravo said:

I hope my final question is what if the landlord who is the expat and lives abroad refuses to return the deposit and/or I decide to go to court?

...

How can I recover this money in that situation?
Should I demand some security in that case before I hand over all the keys?

You take legal action against the landlord using the address in Eng/Wales provided 'for serving notices on the landlord'.

If claiming the penalty for failing to protect the deposit, you include the agent as a joint defendant in your claim. (Housing Act 2004 S212.9 (a).

If you fail to return the keys you will have failed to vacate according to your notice and will be liable for double rent going forward.

JohnBravo said:

So they did the inspection and the landlord decided to charge me about £350. I have replied that the deposit has not been protected and since then the landlord has caved in. I have mentioned that I left over £200 on the prepayment electric meter on old tariff which with the current rates is worth twice as much.
Before they started increasing rates I topped up the meter and a fob for max 2x £250.

What should I do at this stage? Email the landlord and ask why there is no response or start looking for a solicitor?

If the LL has 'caved in' I assume you mean he's agreed to return your deposit in full yes? Whether you still wish to claim the penalty for failing toprotect the deposit is up to you.

Why pay a solicitor? You can't claim back that cost. If you intend to pursue this legally, send a 'Letter Before Action, setting out what you intend to claim, and what you want from the LL, and by when, in order not to take legal action.

Have you actually checked with each scheme to see if the deposit is protected? See

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

JohnBravo

canaldumidi said:

See comments bold/underlined below

Remind us - do you have a contractual or statutory periodic tenancy?
SPT  see below
What does the tenancy agreement say happens at the end of the fixed term? What notice does the tenancy agreement say is required (if specified)? Please quote.
"If at the end of the tenancy tenant(s) want to continue the contract and tenant(s) and tenant(s) have not received from agent / landlord 2 (two) months notice to end the tenancy, this will carry on from month to month as a periodic tenancy"  I copied the whole contract here, it is on page 1

so this appears to be a CPT not a SPT. The contract specifies that following the fixed term a periodic tenancy arises.

Does the contract specify anywhere what notice is required?

The contract says 2 months, I served the notice for 1 month. The LA said it is 2 months but he said he will speak to the LL. The LL agreed and I have this in writing in the email.

How much is the additional rent the LL is requesting? ~£300

How important to you is maintaining good relations? not important

The 1 months notice you served - I asume you aligned this with tenancy periods? What date did you serve it and to expire on what date? (exact dates)?  technically it should be 2 months (as you said in the past) 15/07/2022 but I put 15/06/2022 because this is what suits me.

Please answer the questions: what exact date did you serve the notice?

I served it in person exactly on the 15/05/2022

What exact date did you put for the notice to expire?

I put 15/06/2022 on the notice

...... The plan is to vacate around 1-3rd of June.

Your notice must give an exact date or it is invalid. 'around 1-3 June' is not valid notice.
vacated the day before on the 14/06/2022. The day was agreed with LL as he booked inventory check man but this was cancelled for some reason and only LA turned up.

What are your tenancy period dates?

Please aswer the question: What are your tenancy period dates?

The reason for clarifying the notice you served, the type of tenancy, and the notice required, is that the landlord could argue you still owe rent since you have either not served notice, or have not served sufficient notice.

Ok, but because LL wanted to sell or get a tenant for more rent he agreed to 1 month and I have this in writing (in email)

JohnBravo said:

I hope my final question is what if the landlord who is the expat and lives abroad refuses to return the deposit and/or I decide to go to court?

...

How can I recover this money in that situation?
Should I demand some security in that case before I hand over all the keys?

You take legal action against the landlord using the address in Eng/Wales provided 'for serving notices on the landlord'.

If claiming the penalty for failing to protect the deposit, you include the agent as a joint defendant in your claim. (Housing Act 2004 S212.9 (a).

If you fail to return the keys you will have failed to vacate according to your notice and will be liable for double rent going forward.

2 keys have been returned on the 14/06/2022

JohnBravo said:

So they did the inspection and the landlord decided to charge me about £350. I have replied that the deposit has not been protected and since then the landlord has caved in. I have mentioned that I left over £200 on the prepayment electric meter on old tariff which with the current rates is worth twice as much.
Before they started increasing rates I topped up the meter and a fob for max 2x £250.

What should I do at this stage? Email the landlord and ask why there is no response or start looking for a solicitor?

If the LL has 'caved in' I assume you mean he's agreed to return your deposit in full yes? Whether you still wish to claim the penalty for failing toprotect the deposit is up to you.

Why pay a solicitor? You can't claim back that cost. If you intend to pursue this legally, send a 'Letter Before Action, setting out what you intend to claim, and what you want from the LL, and by when, in order not to take legal action.

Have you actually checked with each scheme to see if the deposit is protected? See

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

I have checked this twice in all 3 schemes but also the LL admitted himself he didn't protect it to save some money as apparently they charge for protection. I think I have screenshots from WhatsApp.

Please see my comments above.

canaldumidi

So you have a Contractual Periodic Tenancy requiring 2 months notice. Exact wording please. Calender months? Tenancy Periods? Your notice may or may not have been adequate.

However the LL apparantly agreed to one months notice, confirmed by email. Exact wording please. Calender month? Tenancy Period? So far as the contract is concerned your notice was inadequate.

Notice serve 15/5/22 to expire 15/6/22 (ie 1 calender month + 1 day).

What are the dates of your tenancy periods please? This may be relevant depending on the wording of the email above.

Should I demand some security in that case before I hand over all the keys?....

2 keys have been returned on the 14/06/2022

So which is it!!!?

Given the deposit is notpprotected you can claim the penalty as already discussed. Whether the LL can counter-claim for eg rent due tothe notice issue is up for grabs....

JohnBravo

canaldumidi said:

So you have a Contractual Periodic Tenancy requiring 2 months notice. Exact wording please. Calender months? Tenancy Periods? Your notice may or may not have been adequate.

However the LL apparantly agreed to one months notice, confirmed by email. Exact wording please. Calender month? Tenancy Period? So far as the contract is concerned your notice was inadequate.

Notice:

This notice to end the tenancy is given in accordance with the lease which requires notice of: 1 month. The tenancy at the above property will end and be vacated on 15/06/2022.

All contractual obligations set out in the tenancy agreement shall be

fulfilled before the property is vacated. In particular, all and any outstanding rent shall be paid in full.

Notice serve 15/5/22 to expire 15/6/22 (ie 1 calender month + 1 day).

What are the dates of your tenancy periods please? This may be relevant depending on the wording of the email above.

Notice was served on the 13/05/2022 as I could not serve it over the weekend so I did it on Friday the 13th.

LA (13/05/2022):

We have spoken to the LL, and he has accepted your 1 months’ notice which was hand delivered from yourself.

They claim I owe for the rent increase but as I already said no notice for rent increase has been served by the LA just their assumption that I agreed to the rent increase.

15th of the month is the last (not the 1st) day of the period. Contract Commence Day is 16th.

Should I demand some security in that case before I hand over all the keys?....

2 keys have been returned on the 14/06/2022

So which is it!!!?

2nd one. 1st one is an old quote

Given the deposit is notpprotected you can claim the penalty as already discussed. Whether the LL can counter-claim for eg rent due tothe notice issue is up for grabs....

Please see comments above. I think the best is to click Quote and read it then because the markup parser is a bit lost.

JohnBravo

The LL wants to settle. He still wants to charge me for some items:

Can we agree the following deductions:

• Price of new bed and mattress £2xx (receipt attached) - £14x (remainder of electricity left on the key) = £142
• Lost and unreplaced fob £50
• Total of £195 to be deducted from the deposit,

Can we please agree on those and I ll make a deposit transfer ASAP.

I have taken legal advice too, it would be my claim against yours, expensive and unnecessary process, since you re charged only for things that were unreported, broken and disposed of without mine or agency’s knowledge.
Under DPS I would be able to charge you for every little scratch on the walls – and since you were aware and informed that I am myself holding the deposit, and our relationship was based on trust, can we please agree on this now and move on.
I have lost a short term tenancy agreement because I could not get the bed delivered on time – and I could add loss of earnings to my claim, but I willing to drop the charges to the minimum to move on.

Interesting when was it that I was informed about the fact the LL holds the deposit. They just make their own rules as they go along and LA is complicit. Relationship based on trust?! So the LL didn't protect the deposit to protect me! He admitted he did it to save on money nothing about trust.