Speaking to doctors and health professsionals

textbook

I'm worried that i don't speak to doctors and other health professionals well enough to get what I need.   For example, yesterday i was trying to ask one of my customers for a recommendation for an orthopaedic doctor locally.   My hip was adjusted and messed up by a quack abroad who probably did a two week course or so I was told and I've had problems ever since   But is throwing out language like "this quack abroad adjusted my hip and now it's messed up" the way to speak to these guys.   The man is just a manager in an orthopaedic dept so i thought he'd appreciate the honesty about what happened but it could be the culture in Britain that all people working in this area stick together. It's something I've grown to suspect.  I also spoke to him about my concerns from what I heard from an Italian Orthopaedic doctor who worked in a big hospital in Birmingham and described what he saw.  He described the doctors there as considering themselves gods, very arrogant and he said incompetent- e.g. consultant moving someone with a spinal injury before knowing what was wrong etc and just their terrible arrogance.  This was why he left the NHS.   I thought speaking to this manager openly might give me answers so i don't fall victim.   But worry he may consider me a trouble maker or diffic

 I heard other concening stuff from a doctor I saw in the US - basically neglect from what he saw 40 years ago working in the UK.   

Anyway, i think you get where I'm coming from- i've had my hip adjusted abroad wrongly  and I've heard concerning stuff about doctors hear in the UK.  I also sense they don't want to hear or take responsibility for malpractice, neglect etc etc   They stick together even with people abroad (who they know nothing about),physios with doctors possibly managers with doctors etc etc


So to get what i want- a recommendation (if I go privately or possible on NHS) here in the UK is it better to be polite even about quacks?     I just find it so frustrating in the UK after living abroad with the secrecy here, the sticking together and hidden malpractice which is cause me to get angry and argue with people who work in this sector.   I feel even if true ranting about it isn't getting me anywhere as I cant change the culture.   I've argued and come into conflict with GPs, doctors, physios etc but not sure it is to my benefit.  My benefit is to get open honest advice on "who to see"   and who "not to see".    Just like with a carpenter for example.

 How do you be polite and speak to these people to find out who is good and who to see etc ( I feel this is all I can do to benefit myself)?

Ibrahim5

It sounds like you would be better going to the US or Italy for treatment.

PterionPterion

It does sound as though you go out of your way looking for trouble. 
Sure, having a bad experience can make people sceptical but to tar all with the same brush isn't doing you any favours. 

Negligence and malpractice is dealt with effectively in the UK regardless of anecdotes and media claims. Millions are paid out by the NHS every year and the GMC investigations are thorough. The litigation rates in the UK in some fields are higher than the US but there are multiple reasons for that. 

Rather, describe what your problem is, how it is impacting you and ask for written advice for whatever line of management they offer so you can go home and consider. 

comeandgo

Just go to your doctor, tell him what gives you pain or what you are worried about and let them decide on next route.  You seem to be going to professional s and telling them what is wrong with you, as in you are giving them diagnosis, let them do their job.

Grumpy_chap

textbook said:

here in the UK is it better to be polite even about quacks?    

 How do you be polite and speak to these people to find out who is good and who to see etc ( I feel this is all I can do to benefit myself)?

It is always better to be polite about everyone, irrespective of where you are or what prior experiences you may have that taint your opinion of the medical profession.

I suggest making an appointment with your GP and reporting the current symptoms you are experiencing and then reference the previous treatment and whether the current symptoms could be linked to that.  Communicate in a factual and impassionate way, but be honest about the impact this is having on you in terms of pain, mobility, energy levels etc.

Then allow your GP to undertake whatever assessments the GP deems necessary to complete and diagnosis and the next step treatment that will alleviate the current symptoms.  Work with the GP in a cooperative manner.

textbook said:

is throwing out language like "this quack abroad adjusted my hip and now it's messed up" the way to speak to these guys.   

NO.

textbook said:

I'm worried that i don't speak to doctors and other health professionals well enough to get what I need.   For example, yesterday i was trying to ask one of my customers for a recommendation for an orthopaedic doctor locally.     The man is just a manager in an orthopaedic dept 

You don't way what type of field you work in, but why were you asking a customer for advice on selecting a medical consultant?

What exactly is a "manager in an orthopaedic dept"? 
I initially read that as specialist bed sales person. 
Manager in a hospital department may, or may not, be medically qualified / experienced and, if they are, may not wish to make recommendations "on the spot" as to one Consultant or another as the "best" medical Consultant for any specific case will depend on many factors and the most-appropriate specialism for managing that patient's condition.

Even if the customer is a medical Consultant in the general field of Orthopaedics, if they are with you as your customer and therefore not working, asking them for advice in that setting is not necessarily appropriate and, if the choice of phraseology used was along the lines indicated "dodgy quack abroad messed my hip", you won't have endeared that Consultant to be helpful.

textbook said:

I'm worried that i don't speak to doctors and other health professionals well enough to get what I need.   For example, yesterday i was trying to ask one of my customers for a recommendation for an orthopaedic doctor locally.   My hip was adjusted and messed up by a quack abroad who probably did a two week course or so I was told and I've had problems ever since   But is throwing out language like "this quack abroad adjusted my hip and now it's messed up" the way to speak to these guys.   The man is just a manager in an orthopaedic dept so i thought he'd appreciate the honesty about what happened but it could be the culture in Britain that all people working in this area stick together. It's something I've grown to suspect.  I also spoke to him about my concerns from what I heard from an Italian Orthopaedic doctor who worked in a big hospital in Birmingham and described what he saw.  He described the doctors there as considering themselves gods, very arrogant and he said incompetent- e.g. consultant moving someone with a spinal injury before knowing what was wrong etc and just their terrible arrogance.  This was why he left the NHS.   I thought speaking to this manager openly might give me answers so i don't fall victim.   But worry he may consider me a trouble maker or diffic

 I heard other concening stuff from a doctor I saw in the US - basically neglect from what he saw 40 years ago working in the UK.   

Anyway, i think you get where I'm coming from- i've had my hip adjusted abroad wrongly  and I've heard concerning stuff about doctors hear in the UK.  I also sense they don't want to hear or take responsibility for malpractice, neglect etc etc   They stick together even with people abroad (who they know nothing about),physios with doctors possibly managers with doctors etc etc


So to get what i want- a recommendation (if I go privately or possible on NHS) here in the UK is it better to be polite even about quacks?     I just find it so frustrating in the UK after living abroad with the secrecy here, the sticking together and hidden malpractice which is cause me to get angry and argue with people who work in this sector.   I feel even if true ranting about it isn't getting me anywhere as I cant change the culture.   I've argued and come into conflict with GPs, doctors, physios etc but not sure it is to my benefit.  My benefit is to get open honest advice on "who to see"   and who "not to see".    Just like with a carpenter for example.

 How do you be polite and speak to these people to find out who is good and who to see etc ( I feel this is all I can do to benefit myself)?

Floss

Personally I think your post suggests a lack of respect for anyone medical whatever country they practice in.

Surgeons are highly qualified & experienced and would be (in my eyes) quite within their rights to take offence at your comments.

As an NHS employee in an acute trust, my suggestion would be to start with your GP and politely request a referral to whichever private provider you prefer. However, remember that the majority will also work in the NHS where your care would be free & possibly better if there are any complications requiring emergency intervention.

Undervalued

Floss said:

Personally I think your post suggests a lack of respect for anyone medical whatever country they practice in.

Surgeons are highly qualified & experienced and would be (in my eyes) quite within their rights to take offence at your comments.

As an NHS employee in an acute trust, my suggestion would be to start with your GP and politely request a referral to whichever private provider you prefer. However, remember that the majority will also work in the NHS where your care would be free & possibly better if there are any complications requiring emergency intervention.

It is always best, regardless of who you are dealing with, to remain polite and to raise any questions in a constructive manner.

I agree that surgeons (and indeed any regulated professional) will be well qualified. This should be respected any advice they offer should be seriously considered. That is not to say it should be followed slavishly and never questioned. There are situations where two doctors will recommend very different treatments. Sometimes both options will have their merits, occasionally one will be right and the other wrong and even, on rare occasions, both will be wrong.

A friend on mine suffered badly as a result of botched NHS surgery and eventually, after a five year legal battle, got compensation of many hundreds of thousands of pounds. Even if you accept that mistakes will sometimes happen, what was inexcusable was the deny everything culture which only ended at a final pre-trial hearing before a high court judge who basically told the trust that they had no case!

Ultimately it is your body and your decision what treatment to accept. Where appropriate it is perfectly reasonable to seek a second opinion. However there is only any point in doing that if you have a sufficiently open mind to listen carefully to the advice offered.

theoretica

I don't know what line of work you are in, but would you like someone being concerned if you were any good, because 40 years ago someone saw some people in the same job who weren't doing it well?

Presumably your hip wasn't right before you saw the person abroad either - or why did you have them adjust it?

My advice is to cut the words - you have X issues and are unsure who best to see.  That is all that is needed.

Ibrahim5

I am sure whoever you see will be more than happy for you to go and get a second opinion.

textbook

Grumpy_chap said:

textbook said:

here in the UK is it better to be polite even about quacks?    

 How do you be polite and speak to these people to find out who is good and who to see etc ( I feel this is all I can do to benefit myself)?

It is always better to be polite about everyone, irrespective of where you are or what prior experiences you may have that taint your opinion of the medical profession.

I suggest making an appointment with your GP and reporting the current symptoms you are experiencing and then reference the previous treatment and whether the current symptoms could be linked to that.  Communicate in a factual and impassionate way, but be honest about the impact this is having on you in terms of pain, mobility, energy levels etc.

Then allow your GP to undertake whatever assessments the GP deems necessary to complete and diagnosis and the next step treatment that will alleviate the current symptoms.  Work with the GP in a cooperative manner.

textbook said:

is throwing out language like "this quack abroad adjusted my hip and now it's messed up" the way to speak to these guys.   

NO.

textbook said:

I'm worried that i don't speak to doctors and other health professionals well enough to get what I need.   For example, yesterday i was trying to ask one of my customers for a recommendation for an orthopaedic doctor locally.     The man is just a manager in an orthopaedic dept 

You don't way what type of field you work in, but why were you asking a customer for advice on selecting a medical consultant?

What exactly is a "manager in an orthopaedic dept"? 
I initially read that as specialist bed sales person. 
Manager in a hospital department may, or may not, be medically qualified / experienced and, if they are, may not wish to make recommendations "on the spot" as to one Consultant or another as the "best" medical Consultant for any specific case will depend on many factors and the most-appropriate specialism for managing that patient's condition.

Even if the customer is a medical Consultant in the general field of Orthopaedics, if they are with you as your customer and therefore not working, asking them for advice in that setting is not necessarily appropriate and, if the choice of phraseology used was along the lines indicated "dodgy quack abroad messed my hip", you won't have endeared that Consultant to be helpful.

textbook said:

I'm worried that i don't speak to doctors and other health professionals well enough to get what I need.   For example, yesterday i was trying to ask one of my customers for a recommendation for an orthopaedic doctor locally.   My hip was adjusted and messed up by a quack abroad who probably did a two week course or so I was told and I've had problems ever since   But is throwing out language like "this quack abroad adjusted my hip and now it's messed up" the way to speak to these guys.   The man is just a manager in an orthopaedic dept so i thought he'd appreciate the honesty about what happened but it could be the culture in Britain that all people working in this area stick together. It's something I've grown to suspect.  I also spoke to him about my concerns from what I heard from an Italian Orthopaedic doctor who worked in a big hospital in Birmingham and described what he saw.  He described the doctors there as considering themselves gods, very arrogant and he said incompetent- e.g. consultant moving someone with a spinal injury before knowing what was wrong etc and just their terrible arrogance.  This was why he left the NHS.   I thought speaking to this manager openly might give me answers so i don't fall victim.   But worry he may consider me a trouble maker or diffic

 I heard other concening stuff from a doctor I saw in the US - basically neglect from what he saw 40 years ago working in the UK.   

Anyway, i think you get where I'm coming from- i've had my hip adjusted abroad wrongly  and I've heard concerning stuff about doctors hear in the UK.  I also sense they don't want to hear or take responsibility for malpractice, neglect etc etc   They stick together even with people abroad (who they know nothing about),physios with doctors possibly managers with doctors etc etc


So to get what i want- a recommendation (if I go privately or possible on NHS) here in the UK is it better to be polite even about quacks?     I just find it so frustrating in the UK after living abroad with the secrecy here, the sticking together and hidden malpractice which is cause me to get angry and argue with people who work in this sector.   I feel even if true ranting about it isn't getting me anywhere as I cant change the culture.   I've argued and come into conflict with GPs, doctors, physios etc but not sure it is to my benefit.  My benefit is to get open honest advice on "who to see"   and who "not to see".    Just like with a carpenter for example.

 How do you be polite and speak to these people to find out who is good and who to see etc ( I feel this is all I can do to benefit myself)?

Thxs.

I thought a manager in Orthopaedics dept would over time learn which doctors are better than others because he's working with them. And consquently a good source of accurate info.  He did say a couple of interesting things though-

 When I asked why they're so arrogant - he said orthopaedic surgeons HAVE TO be arrogant, it comes with the job.  (I don't get that but whatever, what's really important is competency).   He also said a good indicator of a doctors competency is if they're frequently moved, we're all entitled to ask a doctor how long he's been wherever he's working at and if he's been there for a long while, that's a good indicator according to him.   Still no names from him.  His wife is a nurse, so I'll ask her next time I'm there.

 Similar to gossipy receptionists who I've found are a good source of info on this if they've worked somewhere for a long time in my experience.    None of this is any different to finding a tradesman, teacher etc etc.  Recommendations are important.   In the US doctors will comment on other doctors and this definitely a good thing in my experience.   It's generally a more open culture and you can locate how many malpractice cases have been filed against a particular doctor.  Using your experieince intelligence you combine all this info to work out how good they are.   

   A GP basically said an X-Ray was pointless but physios (private ones) all strongly advised it , specifically MRI, anyway,   GPs are notorious for fobbing people off so    I'll get a letter from private physio for  different GP and if that fails use the letter to see an orthopaedic doctor privately. 

I appreciate the advise on being polite, it's just frustration and I don't know how to get the info which is far simpler in other countries.   I don't want to bang on about doctors/costs in Britain too much but for example in Turkey the private hospitals are known to be better than the NHS and cost only £30 to see an consultant.   Most Turks usually make their money in the UK but go for treatment there due to the costs/quality difference.  Openness too probably,  would be another factor.  I know there are good doctors here (well I hope so) it's just getting the info.

And the key thing- assertive and polite not angry or insulting however well deserved.

textbook

Floss said:

Personally I think your post suggests a lack of respect for anyone medical whatever country they practice in.

Surgeons are highly qualified & experienced and would be (in my eyes) quite within their rights to take offence at your comments.

As an NHS employee in an acute trust, my suggestion would be to start with your GP and politely request a referral to whichever private provider you prefer. However, remember that the majority will also work in the NHS where your care would be free & possibly better if there are any complications requiring emergency intervention.

If I seemed hostile to ALL that's not what meant- some excellent, some good and some less good and if I came across as targeting all as negative that's wasn't my intention.  Mixed bag.  Excellent doctors are like Gods.

On the NHS, you can't request a particular doctor though can you?   Also, what do you mean complications which require medical intervention?

We all take our health seriously but when an Italian Orthopaedic doctor (this is recent) said ALL doctors in the large Birmingham hospital he worked at (now left) are quacks and gave me a list of examples, you get concerned. When another of my local customers of mine had a knee operation which made it worse than prior to the op and has been on crutches for last ten years you get concerned and want a name; doctor just tried to ignore him as well.

  And finally my other friend had a vasectomy which went wrong- he has been on Naproxen for last three years and lost his testicle a year after the op.