Returning a product "Not as described"

Bungles976

I bought a smart watch direct from a Samsung Store as a late Christmas treat to myself on New Years Eve
The battery life is described on the website as "Up to 40 hours - Typical usage"
I have managed to get a maximum of 20 hours battery life out of it with 80% of the features turned off. I think this is less than typical usage and no where near the 40 hours advertised

First tried to return the watch on 13th January - The store took it away, ran some test on the battery and told me it was working fine and therefore as per store policy they wouldnt accept the return. I had done my home work and referred to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 - product not as described. They still refused to accept it and said to call customer services.

Rang Customer services the next day and they agreed with me, it should have been accepted as a return and to take it back to the store and if there are any issues to ring customer services while there

Second attempt at returning it was on 16th January. Went to the store, mentioned the call with customer services - Wouldnt accept it. Mentioned the 2015 act - Still wouldnt accept it. Rang customer services, they spoke to the staff in store. Still wouldnt accept it......

Spoke to customer services again on 17th January, who again agreed with me that it should be accepted as a return and even put it in a email to me.

On the 24th January I forwarded that email and my timeline of trying to return the watch to Partner Retail Services who look after the Samsung Stores. Ive had a standard response

"Thank you for taking your time in bringing this to my attention. I Apologise for any inconvenience this has caused so far  I have forwarded your email on to the relevant parties to provide a suitable resolution for yourself."

Since then Ive sent a further 2 emails asking for confirmation that the store will accept the return with no response.....

My Issue now is that the 30 days allowed for in the 2015 Act will expire on 30th January and I wont have a chance to return to the store by then to make a third attempt at a return. (I did ask if they would honor the 30 days allowed in the latest email)

Do they have to honor the 30 days as I had already tried to return it in that period? 
If I keep getting no response to the emails and they keep refusing to accept the return is the only other way to get a refund through small claims? 

Thoughts and advice welcome

comeandgo

But it did not state battery would hold for 40 hours, it stated up to 40 hours. I imagine it’s like the miles per gallon quoted on new cars, highly optimistic.

Bungles976

comeandgo said:

But it did not state battery would hold for 40 hours, it stated up to 40 hours. I imagine it’s like the miles per gallon quoted on new cars, highly optimistic.

I agree that the "Up to 40 Hours - Typical Usage" is a vague term.

Imagine if an electric car was advertised that it could do "Up to 400 miles - Typical usage" on a fully charged battery

But then you couldnt turn on the radio, lights, sat nav, heaters etc and then only got 200 miles from a full charge... would that be as described? 

Sandtree

Bungles976 said:

Do they have to honor the 30 days as I had already tried to return it in that period? 
If I keep getting no response to the emails and they keep refusing to accept the return is the only other way to get a refund through small claims? 

I assume you bought it direct from Samsung seeing as thats who you've been engaging with? If they are the manufacturer but you bought it from say Amazon then the below is irrelevant and you havent stopped the clock.

30 days is the timescale to notify them of your intent to reject the goods and so you are ok from that point of view (noting above). The downside of rejecting goods in the first 30 days is that it is up to you to prove the issue.

Reality is if you do issue county court proceedings they are going to settle as its not economical for them to pay lawyers to fight it (a company cannot just send along a manager to give it a punt of defending it - they must have professional representation no layman). If for some reason they did decide to fight despite the economics you are going to have to find a way first of all evidencing what battery life you are getting and what is really meant by "UPTO 40 Hours of typical use"

Bungles976

Sandtree said:
I assume you bought it direct from Samsung seeing as thats who you've been engaging with? If they are the manufacturer but you bought it from say Amazon then the below is irrelevant and you havent stopped the clock.

Bought from a Samsung Store, was originally talking direct with Samsung Customer Services. But then moved on to Partner Retail Services Limited who are the third party that operate the stores and have given them notice that I want to return the watch, and have had an email reply just acknowledge the email 

Manxman_in_exile

Bungles976 said:

comeandgo said:

But it did not state battery would hold for 40 hours, it stated up to 40 hours. I imagine it’s like the miles per gallon quoted on new cars, highly optimistic.

I agree that the "Up to 40 Hours - Typical Usage" is a vague term.

Imagine if an electric car was advertised that it could do "Up to 400 miles - Typical usage" on a fully charged battery

But then you couldnt turn on the radio, lights, sat nav, heaters etc and then only got 200 miles from a full charge... would that be as described? 

Is 200 miles encompassed within "up to 400 miles"?  If it is, then there is nothing wrong with the description.

If somebody was to say to you that if you ran down the street stark naked singing Rule Brittania that they would pay you "up to £400", would you feel they had been lying to you if they paid you only 25p rather than £399?  I wouldn't.

Always be extremely wary of claims starting "up to... "

Edit:  But don't let that stop you from trying to return it.  Maybe it's faulty.  Maybe Samsung will replace it.  But if they do, don't expect the replacement to perform any better... 

jon81uk

There are two clauses at the bottom of the description about battery life

"Battery time is based on our own laboratory measurements, and may vary depending on factors such as device settings, usage patterns and operating conditions.

Typical value tested under Samsung laboratory condition. Typical value is the estimated average value considering the deviation in battery capacity among the battery samples tested under IEC 61960 standard. Actual battery life may vary depending on network environment, usage patterns and other factors."

Which basically means you'll never get the same in the real world as they claim to measure in the lab.

Also which phone you have might make a big difference due to different Bluetooth on different devices.

I'm an Apple user, so less familar with Samsung but Apple only claim 18 hours battery life and I wear my watch 7am to 11pm usually and rarely get before 40% so I'd easily expect the advertised claim of 18 hours to be true. Apple also provide a lot more information on how they work it out Apple Watch - Battery - Apple (UK)

Ergates

You'll never get the full battery life as advertised, but I wouldn't consider only  50% to be acceptable - and customer services seem to agree.  The challenge here is getting the shop to accept this.

Gobsh

My car is described as 70 miles per gallon but I'm lucky to get 50. I think you'll struggle to challenge exaggerated claims

pinkshoes

Bungles976 said:

I bought a smart watch direct from a Samsung Store as a late Christmas treat to myself on New Years Eve
The battery life is described on the website as "Up to 40 hours - Typical usage"
I have managed to get a maximum of 20 hours battery life out of it with 80% of the features turned off. I think this is less than typical usage and no where near the 40 hours advertised

20 hours would come under "up to" 40 hours. The 40 hours would be on the saver mode where you have to touch a button to make it display the time etc...

I have the Samsung Active watch which is about 2 years old now and tend to stick it on to charge in the evening when I'm sitting down. It depends how many buttons I've been pressing on it! In the energy save mode it will do about 48 hours. 

anotheruser

Gobsh said:

My car is described as 70 miles per gallon but I'm lucky to get 50. I think you'll struggle to challenge exaggerated claims

If it's described as this but you're not getting it, there is a problem.
If it's described as "up to", that's different.


What people seem to be blindly accepting here is the challenge.
You can't claim something has up to 100 hours, but in reality only gets to 50 hours - both would be under "typical usage" - in which case it is for a court to decide whether the 100 hours would ever be reached under typical usage.

There's been a lot of court cases in recent years where a person has won because you'd expect a washing machine (for example) to last longer than the guarantee.  The same sort of thing could be applied to a smartwatch.

OP:  If you do start court action, make sure you claim for every email sent, every phone call made.  Use your own hourly wage to work out the cost as a guide.
I did this once with a magazine retailer, although I wrote £5 per email sent.  This alone added to nearly £100 - way more than it was worth.  There are guides for writing "letter before action" online.  Remember to [i]keep to facts[/i] - do not let your opinion (a la "I think you should do this") get in the way.  Short.  Facts only.

And also, if you paid via Credit Card, perhaps they could help, even if it's just to prompt the company.