Ideas for this bay window? French doors? Alternatives?

ChasingtheWelshdream

Hello all you creative and knowledgeable folks, I’m back to pick your brains as I fear I can’t see the wood for trees. 

We want to do something with this bay window - I just feel doors would look better and make the room flow. It irks me that I can’t see a full view of the garden and the current (broken) side door annoys me no end.

So I had always thought to remove the side door, brick up halfway to mirror the other side and install central French doors. It’s not a small job.

I’ve had a couple of quotes in the £4-6k mark, for which a large chunk is brickwork - effectively rebuilding the wall completely to get every thing lining up. I had hoped it would be a case of simply cutting down the middle and adding some bricks to the side. No so it seems.

This is a not insignificant sum to us, and it will be some months before I have ready cash.  But I am set on having doors of some kind, and the work needs to be done before we tackle the rest of the room. A hefty commitment for us.

I wonder if there’s an alternative I haven’t thought of? Something that would like ‘right’ which maybe doesn’t involve rebuilding the wall. Bi-folds? Panels of some kind? Full length glass instead of a wall?

Its an Edwardian house and the existing roof will remain and building regs will be involved. But I need daylight, sunshine and brightness.

As always, I am enormously grateful for any and all input.

ChasingtheWelshdream

P.S. Please ignore the mess, messy paint and general unfinished-ness. We are in for the long haul! And the trampoline is finally, finally going this year! I hate looking at that thing. 

Doozergirl

We had one of those in our old house.  Incredibly frustrating thing downstairs but the extra space was handy in the bedroom above. 

When we moved in, it was actually like you've suggested doing.  I bricked it up and turned it into a proper bay window.  We had another back door but I still didn't like what we'd done.  

If mine was like yours, I'd have
probably removed the whole thing and put doors in the opening of the main external wall.  

Or knock all the brickwork out and have two vision panels and a central door. 

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thanks Doozer. It makes no difference above but that little bit of extra space downstairs just gives me room for my favourite armchair. 

I actually quite like the look of the bay itself from the outside but I am constantly wishing I could see the garden properly and walk straight out, rather than the side door. Which is at the end of its life anyway.

Forgive the silly question- is a vision panel a full length glass side panel? I’m wondered if replacing the main bit of wall with full glass would save any cost, but then I couldn’t think how to deal with the side returns. 

One company said it was no issue to chop the opening and build a wall on just one side (as I had hoped). The second company said it would all need to come out and be rebuilt. I’m unsure which is correct. The price difference was significant. 

greenface2

the small roof above is probably not supported . I very much doubt it would be . you can have a bi fold bay . full glass either side and a 3 door bifold ( if less than 3600mm minus your bay poles wide ) It would require a double steel "goalpost" support . If you can imagine a goalpost to run through the corners and across the head below but tight to the black part of the head . supporting the roof . you will need a welded cross bar at the top of your bifold and the frame that's required  above it . that will fully support the roof and the weight of the bifold . imagine the weight of 3 panes of glass all in one corner will make the bifold twist and possible problems . I would only insist on the steel being in and using aluminium product not PVCu . Side panels same height but a no need to be supporting anything so can use timber or better thermal profile . 

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you Greenface. 

No, I very much doubt the roof is supported from what we have seen, other than the windows as they are. 

You sound really knowledgeable with bi-folds and I can visualise them across the front but I'm struggling know what the sides would look like, especially where the current door is. Would you have any suggestions - eg replace with a glass panel or build the brickwork up? And if so, would you estimate it would give much saving against the £4-6k we have been quoted for French door/brickwork? The span is approx 220cm.

I know it would need to be quoted properly, but if the cost is likely to be comparable to the French doors, then I wouldn't want to knowingly waste someone's time to come out and measure up. If there are more affordable options out there, then that's a different matter.

stuart45

Not sure why the brickwork costs so much.

Rosa_Damascena

OP do you not find this to be a handy repository for shoes?

ChasingtheWelshdream

stuart45 said:

Not sure why the brickwork costs so much.

I was quite shocked tbh. We had a ball park figure last year from a builder who is no longer available, and a very detailed quote from a larger company (established,  recommended, local)  which was comparable - approx £4k all-in. Neither mentioned the bricks would be an issue, albeit the detailed quote would require an additional survey for final measurements. The higher (latest) quote was a much higher window cost and stated a separate bricklayer cost of an additional £1500.

I had mentally budgeted for £4k and was nearly in a position to give the go-ahead, knowing there is a lengthy waiting time. I just thought I'd get one more price from another recommended local company and was gutted - I assume it is simply the general cost rise?. I will be going back to the original company to see if their price is likely to have increased much in the intervening months but just exploring if there are other options first. 

What I'm not sure is how much of a problem the brickwork actually is, and if the lower quote was adequate. I had assumed it would just be filled-in at the side (it's a solid wall), but the bricklayer said it would need to be removed completely and re-built as a cavity. Do you have any thoughts on that Stuart45? We don't want to fall foul of building regs.

Rosa_Damascena said:

OP do you not find this to be a handy repository for shoes?

Noo (other than my garden clogs to let the dog out), I made myself a lovely Ikea hack coat/shoe nook in the hall so everything is nicely out the way. This window tends to be my bird watching/reading/morning coffee spot. :-) And when we finally (!) finish, the 'snug' end of the dining room.

stuart45

If the lot gets rebuilt as a cavity it will probably need a new foundation. Small amounts of rebuilding can usually be done to match existing. Building control should be able to advise you.

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you, that's really helpful to know. Yes, he mentioned foundations and to be fair did quote for a worst-case scenario. But he was quite sure it would need a cavity to meet building regs and couldn't just be blocked up.

It would be approx 1m2 (if that) to block up half the side door opening as it is. Which is what I had hoped until the independent bricklayer came to look. In the picture you can see the side door step, which is what I believe caused him to think it couldn't be done. I had assumed the stone would be removed, and the plinth carried around in its place - ideally using the plinth bricks that were removed to make way for the French doors.  Are you able to tell anything?

We have building regs involved elsewhere so yes, will have a word with the inspector.

I do appreciate you all commenting, thank you.